How ironic is it that Arctic sea ice melt in August was larger than the state of Alaska?

Jim Z - Ever hear the idiom "Pot calling the kettle black"?

Why don't you be an example for Dana and present some scientific evidence that explains the Arctic sea ice melt without AGW? That might be a nice start to helping seperate partisanship (both your's and Dana's) from science.

Since August 1st the ice extent has decreased another 2.47 million km^2 (Alaska is about 1.7 million km^2), which was the most rapid loss of Arctic sea ice for the month of August.

It's actually a bit surprising, after the very cold la nina Winter and large accumulation of new ice, that this year is so near to breaking the 2007 record year low ice extent. Two new record years in a row (whether it's 2007, 2008 or 2008, 2007 as 1st & 2nd) is significant. It will be interesting to play with some trending analysis once the low is officially determined in September. It looks like some possible acceleration in ice loss may be occurring.

The first reference gives the 1979 to 2000 average as a comparison to 2007 and 2008. I think that the graph would be more informative if all of the curves were plotted, or at least the standard deviations on the average. The second source implies that the SD is about 1/4 of the signal, but these are annual averages so the numbers cannot be directly compared without accounting for seasonal effects. The June ice extent may be within the SD for the average, but it would appear that the September ice extent in recent years is significantly outside a SD for the average. A better, but perhaps more difficult measurement would be the ice volume rather than area. The increasing arctic ice melt indicates more energy is arriving in the arctic. I think that the relative contributions of a change in albedo and energy flux from lower lattitudes (via ocean currents) to the excess energy is an open question.

We had a very cold winter 07/08 in the northern hemisphere and yet the Arctic still melted to one of the lowest levels seen since the satellite record started and comments like crazycon's show little understanding of whats going on, yes it did refreeze by the size of '2 Germany's' but what refroze was much thinner and all that melted this summer very quickly exposing (in spite of the cold winter) old thicker ice to melting. That means we have to have very cold winters or the melt will be much larger.

Boatman: Several questions and answers have been posted recently about the NW passage. The fact is last years big melt opened it up as a viable shipping route, and this is the first time this has happened. It is also true that it has been traversed in the past, starting with Roald Amundsen and it is also true that it took him 3 years to get through as with all the trips after which took times varying from many weeks to months and years, picking your way through over long periods of time isn't a shipping lane.

It's not the first time the Arctic has been ice free and the Northwest passage open to ship traffic--

"Roald Amundsen was the first to succeed, sailing on his ship Gjöa, from Greenland, through Lancaster Strait to the south-east coast of King William’s Land, where, while wintering, he conducted research and observations, as a result of which he pin-pointed the North Magnetic Pole. In the year 2006,100 years have passed since Roald Amundsen for the first time managed to cover this route. Another complete passage took place 40 years later, during the World War II. The route from the Pacific to the Atlantic was covered by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police schooner St. Roch under the command of Henry Larsen. In the second half of XXth century the situation remained relatively unchanged and only a few vessels such as icebreakers used for Arctic transport or special ships were crossing the passage. The first yacht to manage from the Atlantic to the Pacific through North West Passage was the Dutch ketch Willywaw under the command of William de Roos in 1977. So far, only a few yachts have been able to finish the route. "

and that's only the last 100 years-------- we have only been able to SEE the arctic from space and measure the ice in the very RECENT past.

Not as ironic as the sea ice having increased by about twice the size of Germany. You may have missed the irony, but I will point it out to you. You yokels predicted the north pole would be ice free this year (50/50%), and yet it increased from last year. Back to the old model. If the model doesn't predict, you must acquit.

http://www.dailytech.com/Arctic+Sees+Massive+Gain+...

BTW, I must have missed something. Since when does a melting iceberg prove anything about AGW? Are these icebergs only able to melt when the warming is due to humans? And if so, who changed out the icebergs that have been melting for thousands of years without our intervention?

WOW! ..... The mouth-breathers (liberals) must really be getting worried about Palin.

Dana, please stop with the one-sided reporting!

While Palin may have expressed doubts regarding AGW, she nonetheless did act responsibly in creating a position to study and prepare for global warming scenarios.

"Dear Alaskan,

Alaska’s climate is warming. While there have been warming and cooling trends before, climatologists tell us that the current rate of warming is unprecedented within the time of human civilization. Many experts predict that Alaska, along with our northern latitude neighbors, will warm at a faster pace than any other areas, and the warming will continue for decades.

We are faced with significant questions: How fast will the climate warm? How warm will it get? What effects will the warming have? Is there anything we can do to slow the increase or the extent of the warming? Realizing that we can’t stop the warming, what can we do to adapt? And, what role should state government play in all of this?

To get the ball rolling, I signed Administrative Order 238 in

September 2007, which directs a team of my cabinet members to prepare an Alaska Climate Change Strategy for my consideration. The strategy is to serve as a guide for a thoughtful, practical, timely, state of Alaska response to climate change. It is to identify priorities needing

immediate attention along with longer-term steps we can take as a state to best serve all Alaskans and to do our part in the global response to this global phenomenon."

The ice would have melted even if we had never heard of Sarah Palin. And it would have melted in spite or in line with whatever she said about global warming.

One year does not a trend, make. Ice melts all the time, seeing as how it's nearing the end of summer.

I suppose the snow and build-up of ice in the North Pole this year will be somehow attributed to "climate change" because how can you have freezing temperatures and get stuck in the ice when it's supposed to be runaway warming?

Other thoughts: Isn't it great that there's that much ice to melt.

As a science Major?... Doesn't oxygenation do anything for you at all? Those woe begone polar bears can't survive without the food chain. ' Look before you leap'.

(Ken), do a little deep diving. you'll find out PDO's have different phases. I'm so desensitize to this ' BS'. I'll never take an alarmist view point with any credibility.

Why bring politicians into this? I read on another question where you suggested leaving out media sources when talking science. Yet here you are, doing exactly the same thing. Do us all a favor and keep the politics out of it. The only thing I find ironic is you not following your own advice.

It could still be worse.

She obviously doesn't talk to scientist and the native American's living there. She is not likely interested in facts that may make her re-think her policies. I'd like to see her (all the candidates for that matter) go to a scientific town hall meeting and discuss scientific issues (AGW, evolution, stem cell research, food safety, diseases, pollution control. genetically modified foods, science education, etc.). I saw that some scientific organization was holding one and invited Obama, McCain, Clinton and the others, but every one of them had "prior engagements" although they were ask last summer or fall. Wish I could remember details, but I'm too old. Let me take some ginseng. Where did I put it?

That type of meeting is what is needed to separate the crackpots from those who may offer real solutions or at least partial solutions.