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Did the Catholic Church turn herself upside down, or just mix in heresy with her doctrine to fool the people.?
After that "mixing" was she able to throw out all of her Catholic authors of the last 150 years to show that all of their Imprimaturs and Nihil Obstats never meant anything? As to why she did that, can anyone explain why?
The unorthodox and the Protestants had wanted her to "change." Did she change to bring THEM in? Or to bring herself out? The doctrinal books if not null then why discarded? If not null, then why do the Novus Ordo Catholics not read those doctrinal books, Ecclesiastical Reviews and Encyclicals to check them out and see if they are valid? If valid once, not valid now? If Doctrine indefectible once, NOW defectable? Does this make sense when we are speaking of the eternal Word of God? Had the Professors of Theology and the Doctorates dissertations written catholicly in their serious apologetic studies? The alternative is that the Roman Catholic Church been in heresy for 1958 years just as do the Protestants and the unorthodox and all the break-away variations of religion claim, and now the Vatican Church finally admitted it?
Does NewChurch place God above Man; confess to brothers first, and then to God? Was this all backwards, and now they can say the Apostles were wrong? That they should confess to their friends first? Is that heresy? Is it brotherhood? Is Brotherhood a Religion? But--- Is not the real teaching of the True Faith that the brotherhood of the Catholic Church is/was already a well-defined family arrangement? And it gains its new members by the usual family route: they are born into it — through the regenerative power of Baptism? And once baptized, they become, as the Baltimore Catechism puts it, sons of God and heirs to the kingdom of Heaven? Is this NOT the true teaching from all of eternity? Then why throw those books out?
Here is a list of a few apologetic books--books which Scott Hahn, and his once-friend and many other famous NewChurch members know, just so you can inter-loan them --the books are archived (hidden, lost or discarded)---and THEN comment, but not before:
Canon Fr. George D. Smith, "The Teaching of the Catholic Church"; Fr. Henry James Coleridge, The Return of the King";
Fr. Koch "Manual of Apologetics";
Fr, Prachensky, "The Church of the Parables";
Fr. S. Hunter, S.J. "Outlines of Dogmatic Theology";
Fr. Jos.Clifford Fenton, Prof. Dogmatic Theol., Cath.Univ., Concept of Sacred Theology";
Henry Denzinger, "Sources of Catholic Dogma" 1952, rev. by Karl J. Rahner, S.J.
Bored: Who are the fundamentalists, what is “everything” and who is being fooled?
Sweetie: Now who is being fooled? Books shown are from scholars of Catholicism. You have not read any.
Ricky: What is the “official” birth control dogma? Perhaps lack of chastisement was meant to drive people away.
Denise: Answer the question. Pope Pius X, IX, V, VIII, VI were led by the Holy Ghost also. Read encyclicals.
Orchid my dear: Read carefully. Catholics write books--about dogma, dogma is catechetical. Traditional dogma is defined by Doctors, promulgated by popes. Read all popes, not just selected ones. All definitions in dogma ended in 1952 with the Assumption of Mary promulgated as de fide by Pope Pius XII.
John W: Answer the questions. The Paraclete guides legitimate Councils which are called to define dogma. All dogmatic definitions ended in 1952. The Invisible Vicar, a dogma of the Church, always guides the Church, even “between” vicars for He will not leave us orphans. This Question is not about Abp. Lefebvre, you have digressed. I will reply on it since no one seems to have a clue about the Canon Law in place on the actions of Abp. Lefebvre [please use his title, he is, before God, a priest forever; God uses the Bishop’s title, too]. Abp. Lefebvre has changed no dogma, established no church. His acts are those of a single person who opened a seminary with episcopal permission. His priestly society has no ecclesial power; it commands no one, nor excommunicates anyone. The only pending fault of those who hold to the Vatican II popes and disobey them is that it is diametrical They admit but disobey. If this is expressed in the open forum, the only choice is to obey. (con’t)
John W (con't): He who will not obey to what he admits commits mortal sin; he who will not admit to what he disobeys commits mortal sin. Many of these will not learn, and their crime is self-willed ignorance, a crime against the Holy Ghost of disobedience in the light of intelligence. It is first the sin against the First Commandment. Not all schism is dogmatic and/or excommunicable. Abp.Lefebvre’s schism for which he cannot be excommunicated (the writ was left unsigned and is not published in the Acta Sedis Apostolis) is that of espiscopal consecrating without a mandate. In the past the Catholic Church has restored schismatic bishops for their error by a public declaration of the Abjuration against Error, the Oath Against Modernism, and private absolution. (Encyclical of Pope Pius V) Read Bishops at Large, Peter Anson. Focus on your dogma 30 A.D. to 1952 and answer the question.
John W: Thank you for your excellent observation on the missing catechesis. It is true that overkill in the question was used as a device to stir the minds. The new catechesis, opines Fr. Trinchard, Dr. Coomaraswamy, Fr. Cekada, and others who are scholars in theology is that the struggles of theologians, popes, saints and martyrs are unheard, missing popes and saints, theologians and doctors are unmentioned, there is a gap in history, a canyon between generations due to denigrating what the elders learned and remember. This is lethal to continuity of doctrine. How shall the weakly catechized know there exists true doctrine decreed by Christ, left by papal Encyclicals? He is told nothing of it. 150 years of missing ecclesial history does not convey Catholicism. It does convey much “deviation,” always explained away. The literary record by ecclesial theologians and doctrinists is locked away. The titles will not be known unless there is a beginning point. This is that point.
9 Answers
- john wLv 71 decade agoFavorite Answer
Your argument is untenable.
If you truly believe the Holy Spirit guides the Church, then the Spirit must have been present during Vatican II and the last five papacies.
If the Spirit was not present during the Council and the See of Peter is vacant, whom is He now guiding to preserve the True Church? Archbishop Lefebvre and later the SSPX bishops? If that is the case how do you explain the current SSPX attempts to 'reconcile' with Newchurch through compromise? How does the Spirit guide one to compromise with heresy?
Is it really God's will for the Church to exist only in a scattering of independent chapels?
Source(s): *EDIT*- I happen to agree with you, for the most part. My answer (playing advocatus diaboli) was merely to present a common Novus Ordo argument against your claim. If you wish to advance your case to the average Newchurcher, I would suggest 'keeping it simple'. Forty years of poor catechesis have rendered most of them theologically illiterate. I would speculate their eyes glazed over after your first short paragraph, resulting in the near total lack of response to your question. *EDIT* The sad fact is that Newchurch will stop at no tactic to avoid the very doctinal examination you suggest, which would reveal that it has indeed broken with the Catholic Faith. The aforementioned lack of catechesis, even that which utilizes the current 'Catechism', is purposely designed to produce a flock unquestioning ignorant sheep, whose job is to warm pews and put shekels into the collection basket. The current manufactured 'scandal' involving Bishop Williamson's personal viewpoint on a disputed matter of secular history deflects attention from the fact that his 'excommunication' was invalid to begin with. One prays for a true Pope who would enforce adherance to all facets of Catholic dogma with the same rigor that the current occupant enforces a certain viewpoint of recent secular history. - cristoiglesiaLv 77 years ago
So, let me see if I have this right. We have here a new heretic saying that the Church founded by Christ is teaching falsely. You ignore the fact that Jesus said that this was impossible when He said that the gates of hell will never prevail against His Church. You claiming that it has is calling Jesus a liar. The Bible says of the Church that it is the "pillar and foundation of the truth". So you are saying that the Bible is false teaching also. So far you have destroyed any possible credibility that you might have with your claims. I would suppose that you follow instead of the Pope or prime minister whom Christ gave the keys to some 2000 years ago. His rightful successor continues to serve in this office that Jesus created to be enduring and it has been for 2000 years. The Bishop that you follow and believe in is NOT the first Bishop to teach heretical teachings. He is not the first to be disobedient to feed, I suppose, his prideful nature. Some people are very easily fooled by such evil men. God bless!
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
- Anonymous1 decade ago
I have read your statement twice and still have no idea what you are talking about and I'm Catholic. I have read a book by Scott Hahn and take it for what it is. No author writes a book about their faith and makes it doctrinal or dogmatic. Only God's word it Truth and all others about God are personal tot heir faith and beliefs.
The Catholic Church doesn't change her doctrines nor dogmas due to what anyother else says. When she makes a doctrine it's due to the the meeting of the pope and cardinals and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
- big redLv 71 decade ago
The Catholic Church is led by the Holy Spirit who in return leads the Pope It is more like the other churches turn things around not the true faith.We do not live by bible alone we have sacred Traditions also.
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- 1 decade ago
No, the Catholic Church did not turn itself upside down, or mix in heresy with the Church's doctrine to fool the anyone!!!.
- rickyLv 41 decade ago
catholicism lost it for me when their flock disregard the official birth control dogma, and when the priests were shuffled and allowed to continue their 'defilement' unscathed.
hypocrisy is my anti-god.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
no. it's the fundamentalists turning everything upside down to fool everybody.
