My thoughts/questions, on how Yahoo could improve "points assignment" formulas: what are yours?

Here are my few contributions.

Best Answers ... point equal to the number of stars: one star answer = 1 point; five star answer = five points. Answers selected by vote = 1 point. Along with the ability to up to five points (5, 4, 3, 2, 1 -- one of each) for legitimate answers when the call is close. Maybe this could be massaged into a system that allows for up to 15 points to be spread with no one receiving more than 5 points (3 answers at 5 points ea or 5 @ 3 points or 2 @ 4 with 2 @ 3 and 1 @ 1)

Questions .. 1 point penalty. I get the idea of loosing points for asking questions to keep any one person from posting thousands of "Bella" questions. Or more likely, to keep "newbies" from flooding the the system with dozens of question or having one user ask the same question in 20 different places. (all redirected to "Classical" for convenience) :-)

Thumbs Up/Down ... please make it undoable. I've hit the wrong one more than once, and I've also seen answers come back with clarifying information that would change my TD to a TU ... for this reason I no longer give TDs unless the answer is so obviously wrong, or phishing to get people to go visit sites that are 100% unrelated. It would be nice if trolls were eliminated. But there are dozens of questions that already have perfect answers ... adding a "me too" doesn't seem productive if you can go ahead and punch the Thumbs Up option.

[Edit: I love person's idea of having some points deducted for letting a question go to a vote.]

Unless we can start redeeming every thousand points mark with say vouchers for beer (or wine if that be your preference) I fail to see any worthwhile reason to the whole idea of accruing points?

I'm serious.

It's like achievements earned when completing games on the Xbox 360 in reality about as much use as a chocolate fire surround.

Hence probably though the reason why when someone asks an inane question like the date of Mozart's birthday why we then get like twenty answers all essentially saying the same thing when one answer would usually suffice.

To those individuals, what's wrong with simply leaving a thumbs up?

Oh yes that's right you won't receive a worthless couple of imaginative points.

They are not a barometer for measuring anything of any substance or certainly of any worth.

Yes best answers are a bit different but they could be awarded devoid of any points tally.

As regards best answers that aren't picked and the huge amount that end up in a public vote.

This certainly needs fixing.

I don't know if anyone is aware but you can actually vote for your own answer.

Now I find that to be downright dishonest because how can you be sure that the individual is being upright and truly evaluating all the answers given and fairly picking the best one totally free of bias towards their own response already submitted.

Well in truth we can't so the whole process of best answers is infected and as such can never give a true assessment of any individual.

All good ideas, methinks.

I have never understood why those who don't answer questions are allowed to pass judgment (thumbs up/down) on existing answers. There probably is a legitimate reason, but I haven't figured it out.

As for the -5 points for asking a question, that seems silly to me as well. I suppose the reason is to prevent someone from creating an account and posting 500 questions in their first hour of membership (ok, that's an exaggeration). But if that's the reason, then can't there just be a cap on the number of questions allowed per unit time? Maybe set an arbitrary limit at 10 per hour.

Now, I might pose this question: why don't we do away with the points entirely? Apart from a "status builder," I don't really see the reason for them. I have not once been influenced in the way I answer a question by the thought "gee, I hope I get best answer so I can have 10 more points added to my record." Maybe I'm alone there, but I think and hope that curiosity and willingness to help is more a motivation for participation in these forums.

Interesting thoughts, Alberich!

I do this mostly for fun and have not really paid much attention to the points. I know I must be doing something right because I keep getting points. Once in awhile I will get a message that says "Whoa, you just got 14 points". I am not exactly sure for what though, but I'll take them.

I agree with you about taking points away when asking a question makes no sense at all. The only reason I can think of is to maybe discourage people from asking ridiculous questions in order to get points. So no points awarded for asking a question, but none taken away.

As far as trolls are concerned, I need to pay more attention, I may be getting trolled and not even know it.

I feel your question about voting has merit. Why should someone who did not answer the question have the right to vote on the answer. However, do you think one of the answerer's would give everyone except themselves a thumbs down in order to get the Best Answer? I'm speaking out of ignorance here. I do not know if that is even possible.

________

I took a quick break and looked at the scoring explanations. Yes, I agree the scoring could be improved on. Why should someone get 2 points for just agreeing with the answer before theirs? I think you need to contribute to earn points.

What qualifies one as a "top contributor?" that was not listed in the scoring page.

So you're saying that if I take a whole bunch of time to give a considered response to a question that no one else bothered with I should get 1 point, while one of the thirty people who said "OMG!!! That's the best first paragraph of a vampire mermaid novel I've ever read!!! You're the next SMeyer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" gets 30 points? Hmm.... Let me think... Nope, I don't much care for that idea, thank you all the same.

Thumbs down are irrelevant, the proverbial sticks and stones.

Questions need to cost points because we don't need any more "am I pretty?" or, "I'm bored, say something totally random?" excuses for questions. If you pick a best it only costs you two, which seems fair since that is what each answer receives per question.

You've already admitted that you spend all your time in this category. Perhaps your suggestions are valid for the specific conditions here. Your mistake is in forgetting that each category is different and each has its quirks and foibles. Right now Classical has 263 open questions. Books & Authors has 4547. Just a little bit different. For you to propose sweeping changes to the entire board from the security of your small and clique-ish corner does a disservice to the rest of us.

Not only that but who really cares? As has already been pointed out, the points are worthless. I do agree with another poster who said he played it like a game though. To a large degree so do I, and games are always best played with the big picture in mind.

Well, I think the whole system is crap anyways.

The only reason I have 44% best answer is because I actually go back and VOTE for my own answers to questions that have gone to vote. In some cases I don't vote for my own answer, such as the 4/4 violins vs 3/4 violins that are used for waltzes, I of course did not vote for my own answer there! Or if I feel as if my answer, in retrospect, was giving bad advice. But if my answer was comparable to others, then heck yeah im gonna vote for my own answers! I play for points, not because I want more points than you, because I really don't care if anyone else has more points than me, but because to me this is a game. Sometimes I get bored of the game, and stop coming here for a few days, then I come back. I dabble around in the Computer section as well, I'll probably end up with a badge there next week because I answered like 70 questions in a two day period. Most of them went to votes. LOL.

But my opinion is this: if you ask a question and you forget to choose a best answer and it automatically goes to vote, you should be banned from Y!A on your 3rd offense. Maybe that will take care of the problem. Because that bothers me the most, when I actually take time to type out a whole essay of a response (Mamianka does this often) and the question will go to vote. The asker likely never even came back to look at the answers. Its like responding to a brick wall.

Oh well.

BW

P.S. Where has Duchess been? It's like she came, saw and conquered, and left.

ADD: She isn't getting married until April.

I think that the general idea of the points system is sound. There are a few things I wish would go away, but only because they are abused to the point of madness:

1. I would like to see a deduction laid down on people who ask a question that has been done to death (you know the one I'm thinking of, but there are others). Those questions should be tagged when they hit, say 30 times a month. This sounds like alot, but I have found the Bella question listed on here five times in the current section, lord knows how many are archived.

2. I think there should be a block to keep you from voting for yourself. That shouldn't be too hard to do. It's tacky.

3. Maybe there should be a one point penalty for posting outside the correct forum to start with, and it can increase as you continue to do it. Once you've done it five times, it goes up to two points, etc.

Again, if people did things the right way, none of this would even be worth thinking baout. But as I tell my students, every dumb rule is there because somebody dumber went ahead and ruined it for the rest of us.

I have nothing to say on the issue, I gradually lost any interest in the point system. Something must be beyond my reach, because an average of 65 BA’s per month as I did last August (on 66 attempts) is quite impossible to me to maintain, keeping a job and a family.

The YA system is technically full of bugs, sometimes is unavailable without serious explanations (coffee-break ….), it’s stone-age stuff in terms of control sophistication, the contributors list was

unavailable for 6 months, if you are blocked nobody notifies you and you still can see the blocker’s question, but when you post the answer some silly message fools you around, sometimes you see the US questions only, sometimes all the English, etc. etc., moderation isn’t in place and some self-appointed sheriffs moderate by individual rules, anonymity without limits only encourages stupidity and trolling. I take the opportunity to leave a memorandum on disturbances you receive here. Clearly, the best remedy is to ignore, but for those who can’t, this will help:

Technique: Trolling

Description: Putting thumbs down or no-best-answers votes systematically

How to detect: If you hide your activities, it falls

What to do: Hide or grin and bear

Technique: Shadow-nicking

Description: Trolling with multiple nicknames

How to detect: The number of thumbs or votes-against is always the same and clearly unrealistic

What to do: Hide, or answer only at the end of the answering period, or grin and bear

Technique: Ambush question

Description: A succulent / specialistic question is posted, then it's left to voting and trolled (see above)

How to detect: The asker is a one-off nick, oftentimes created ad hoc

What to do: Don't answer to strange new entries or to people who have no answers in their career-track

Technique: Work-out question

Description: A question requiring hard research or work; you work hard but the BA goes to a 'Yes, nice'-type answer

How to detect: Usually, genuine complex questions come from homeworkers (easy to recognize) or current patrons

What to do: Stay loose

Technique: Ranting question

Description: Posting an ambush question and after your answer a host of nicknames will criticize / offend you

How to detect: Some questions are not in line with the career track of the asker

What to do: Stay loose or retire the answer at once; it's the worst form of stalking. If you argue, you'll get the guilt.

Technique: Direct attack

Description: Someone will post a question openly criticizing your attitude

How to detect: The motivation to the attack is disproportional

What to do: Report the question

Good question. I don't have much problem with the way YA awards points. They have had so many problems just keeping totals added up with their present system that adding percentage based points would be a nightmare. The whole system would probably have a melt down!

I do think that part of the troll problem could be taken care of by just removing the thumbs down option. If you like or agree with a person's answer give it a thumbs up otherwise leave it alone.

A "percentage based best answers chart" would be OK or work percentage of best answers into the overall positioning chart.

Musician, composer, teacher.

For me, points are useless. I guess they encourage people to answer, but for me at least, I answer because I have an opinion that I think is relevant to the question or an answer that is at least helpful.

Getting points for it or best answer, shows at least that your contribution is appreciated, but is it really so important that you would care so much? I mean it would be nice to have better imput in who gets points for answering, and yes the asker should be the one to give thumbs up or thumbs down. Because people get points for having thumbs up, and sometimes the answer is totally irrellevant.

On the points given in relation to how many people answered, good idea, but it seems that it is very rare for a serious question to have more than 10 answers. The ones that get 20 or 30 are usually "Do you like Bellas Lullaby?" and then every one gets annoyed and will be like NOOOOO!!!!!! and so there will be heaps of people doing that.

Ah, it annoys me...

So if you want proposals:

1. You shouldnt be "charged" for asking questions.

2. Good questions should get points (working on the star system?)

3. People posting in the wrong forum should be reported and have their question removed. (You are the exception... I get why this is in the classical section)

4. A Bella's Lullaby Sheet Music forum should be made for all those twilight geeks.

5. Top Contributors should be from around the world not just the US. (i am thinking of Del_icious_manager of course...)

6. People should be able to reply to answers, maybe not on the actual question, but in some way. (other than email.)

7. Classical Music should be changed to the following sections: classical music, instruments/sheetmusic, music theory

So add that to you petition.