American Atheists: Don't you think you own Christianity some gratitude in forming your values?

Your point is good and i commend you on it but ...unless you really have a heart to heart with someone like an atheist or just another non-believer then I must say you will probably get nowhere on the computer simply because people like to take what you say and turn it around as i have seen on your replys and take it as just more info which lets face it not many people really care about info in this world anymore unless it suites there needs for the time being! Though i am a believer and well good speach i rather liked it!! good luck and god bless!!

Perhaps I should also be grateful for the ignorance, bigotry and prejudice that are influenced by Christianity? I don't think so!

You have it all backwards: religious morals are based on human morals. They are influenced by the moral values of the time and environment they were written in. Morals are not objective, they evolve with society. Our society values compassion because it is altruistic, it is mutually beneficial and necessary for the survival of it.

The values you describe are not confined to Christianity, nor are they confined to the United States. Those are very arrogant implications! You don't need to have any Christian influence to be compassionate, respectful, tolerant, or have any other value you may consider to be virtuous.

There is no such thing as 'atheistic values' or beliefs. Atheism says nothing of any belief, it simply means no belief in god(s).

Edit: Atheism (without belief in god(s)) has been around as long as theism (belief in god(s)). The deaths under Stalin and Pol Pot were not in the name of atheism, they were political movements.

How many deaths in the past 2000 years were in the name of Christianity? The Crusades, Inquisition, the Marian Persecutions to name a few.

I will say, that the values I have, were in part shaped by religion.

But Christianity was NOT the first religion on the scene, and many of the values in Christianity, come from other religions that were around long before it. So I can say, that even Christianity got it's values from other religions like Babylonians, Jews, Egyptians and others.

And you seem to be picking an choosing the values that you think are 'good'.

Christianity used to condone slavery, is extremely sexist, in that men are more valued then women, and women are treated more like possessions that people. And it does say in several passages, that your not supposed to tolerate those of other faiths, or no faith living among you.

If we really lived by the values and morals of the Bible, we would be far from peaceful and loving; Especially to those of other beliefs.

My values are a mixture of upbringing, which yes did include some time spent at church when I was young, secular values, and my own ideas based on the experiences I've had over my life time.

I actually think most Christians arrive at their values in the same way. This is apparent since even Christians can't seem to completely agree on 'right' and 'wrong' either. Or we wouldn't see so many different denominations.

I don't owe Christianity a damn thing. The founders of this country were deists, and wanted a establish a SECULAR nation. Much of our government is based on Greek principles, NOT Biblical.

Family has nothing to do with Christianity. The concept of family is timeless, and can be witnessed not only in humans, but other animals as well. The Golden Rule (love your neighbor) is older than Christianity, and is repeated throughout many philosophies and religions around the world. Helping others, and not harming (rape and murder, to use your examples) ARE NOT Christian concepts - don't be arrogant or stupid. The desire of peace and prosperity... Are you out of your mind?! Do you really thing human nature and empathy are owed solely to YOUR religion? Seriously?

Morality comes from within. We have empathy, emotions, and these enable us to live as social creatures, within family units and in communities. We have laws and values shaped by society, family, peers, and our own personal morals (which will vary from person to person). It's social evolution, not your special little religion.

The Christian god clearly condones rape and murder. The daughter of Lot, the first born of Egypt, etc.

Being able to communicate properly is not petty. If you cannot get your point across to people, then your words mean nothing.

Either way, statements as such just show you are both extremely ignorant and do not fully think out your own beliefs. Especially considering that Judaim was Christianity's precursor and the morals/values would have come from them and not from Christianity.

Further, the Native Americans had societies that last an unknown number of years before being "introduced" to Christianity's morals. And by "introduced" I mean before the Christians rolled in and committed genocide.

Edit: Neither Pol Pot nor Stalin killed in the name of atheism. Saying they did is blatant lying and showing you are too ignorant to be alive.

Even asking how atheism gives moral values indicates you don't have a clue as to what atheism means. It is identical to asking what morals come from not believeing in leprechauns. Obviously, no morals would come from not believing in something.

Oh, I wish to point out YOU OBVIOUSLY BORROWED FROM JUDAISM YOU HYPOCRITE.

Not murdering and raping aren't values specific to Christianity... I think you will find that in any culture. There were morals before Christianity as well. I don't think the religion has very much to do with it - just the people who practice it.

Edit:

If a Christian murders somebody, it is not necessarily because he's a Christian. Similarly, if an atheist murders someone, it is not necessarily because he's an atheist. Blaming Stalin's murders on atheism is dishonest; it had nothing to do with atheism. On the other hand, countless wars have been fought in the name of religion.

No.

What you call morals, or values, are more a type of societal evolution. Meaning, socially developed guidelines which function for the continuation/survival of a society or community. Not at all something taught exclusively by christianity. The awful thing about christianity (and a few other religions) are not the "moral teachings" born of common sense, like not killing or stealing. It is the demand for eternal worship/servitude, and the threat of eternal torture if you don't subscribe to the "moral teachings" of any given religion that demand them.

Nope.

Slavery was condoned in America due to the curse of Ham. I would rather not claim that morality.

I do not condone the killing of others in the name of religion (holy wars, spanish inquisition, no one expects the spanish inquisition).

Family values in our society today are a joke. I am back at school to obtain my teaching degree and have been in the school system. The youth of today expect everything. There is a huge problem with unearned entitlement.

Actually today and in the past most of our founding ideals in America were borrowed from the Native Americans. I'll go with some of their cultural ideals instead.

Although in its purest form, religion typical is a force of good, people have murdered more in the name of religion than for any other cause. Worldwide, throughout history, religion has been an overwhelming source of pain, misery, and destruction. Either way, just because the church currently teaches good values, is that reason enough for me to be religious? I think not. Oh, and I do not need religion to tell me rape and murder are bad.

i dont agree with you. i am moral...and i didnt need a god or a savior or a church to teach me right from wrong. see..when i hurt someone.... i get depressed... i dont feel good. and it lingers in my mind for longer than i would like. so i dont do things that i think i will regret doing later. and then when i learn from a mistake....i dont thank someone in a church ive never met for.....giving me values.

it has nothing to do with a god since its obvious that believers make up a major majority of the prison population.

so is that christainitys ..fault? ..do the prisionors owe you gratitude?.... or do you owe them an apology for not teaching them correctly?

and to really ask "what moral values come from atheism?" is show that the fear is still here..

using fear to tip the scales of people who are weakminded and easily swayed towards your beliefs. when you use fear.. to influence anyone...shows how few morals you truely have.

i am afree thinker...... i do learn from my listakes.... i do apologize directly for those i have wronged...and i try my hardest to never do that again... i try everyday.

and i do all this without expecting to live forever after i die