Question concerning these great verses in Romans chapter 5?

How I enjoyed reading this portion brother. Your sharing was so watering and touched me deeply. Hallelujah for the Grace of God.

Our Lord Jesus came to us full of Grace and Truth. He is the fulfilment of all the types, persons, figures, of the Old Testament and today, He has enacted a New better Covenant in His own blood.

As you have so awesomely shared, our brother Paul, this vessel chosen by God, was well trained under the very best. Knew the OT inside out, so when the Lord finally unveiled him, Paul was able to SEE how perfectly Christ matches all that was in the OT, how much He is the reality of all shadows of the OT.

He shared much of this in the epistle to the church in Phillippi

Chapter 3 shares...

4 Though I myself have something to be confident of in the flesh as well. If any other man thinks that he has confidence in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day; of the race of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee;

6 As to zeal, persecuting the church; as to the righteousness which is in the law, become blameless.

HALLELUJAH!!!

7 But what things were gains to me, these I have counted as loss on account of Christ.

8 But moreover I also count all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, on account of whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ

9 And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith,

Amen.

Who are we to tell God that His purpose to bless all the nations because of Abraham, the father of faith is wrong. Who are we to tell God that His desire to do away with all the dividing walls that separate men into Jews and Gentiles is wrong? Who are we to tell God that His desire for the ONE NEW MAN is wrong?

Christ came and Grace came. Paul saw this, all the brothers who wrote the New Testament were under this same light concering Christ. How we need to be unloaded and drop so many things and just come UNDER GRACE, who is Christ Himself.

Thank you brother for this post. Hallelujah for ABOUNDING GRACE.

Praise God.

PS. Each time we endeavor to carry out the Law of God by ourselves, we would see that the Law of Sin and Death in our flesh is stronger and every effort will be defeated by this powerful law. But as the Law of the Spirit of Life, in us, the Lord Jesus is the Most Powerful law in this entire universe, in Him we live a blameless holy life before God... where our righteousness surpasses even that of the Scribes and Pharisees.

Matthew 5:20

For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

Are we able to do this on our own? NEVER. But by tapping into Christ as this Law of Life, by enjoying and calling upon His name. feeding our spirit in the Word and in prayer.... we are able to live a life that satisfies all God's righteous requirements because THIS IS GRACE, God meeting His own need IN US.

Saint Paul is the Apostle to the gentiles not the Jews. Saint Paul had a difficult time with the Jews in Rome, It was Saint Peter who came and toned things down. The early Church was made mostly of Jews, those who rejected the teachings of Peter and Paul, many were the same who walked away from Jesus when He said'' eat my body'' ..The few jews who didn't follow Jesus even to day believe that Jesus didn't rise from the dead. The Gift of faith is a very fragile thing, and can be lost or it appears never given.

What I understand the Jews of that time wanted the Christians to worship in the synagogue and to follow all of the laws of the Jewish religion and then if they wished to have their service a of the breaking of the bread at home.

This was the case for some time in Jerusalem but then the Jews rejected this too. That began the killing s that Paul was responsible for.

First off....the Jews created "fence" laws to keep people from disobeying the "big" laws. They were things that the Jews had followed for hundreds of years they were "established" rules. So by the time of Gamaliel they were well known. They were the laws that were abolished by the Cross.

Old traditions are hard to change. Things had been the same for so long that to break out into a new pattern was a difficult thing. They expected the Messiah to be the one to deliver them from their enemies as the the Judges of the past had done. They were not expecting a kingdom of love and loving others especially your enemies. It was easier to reject grace than accept it because accepting meant changing everything they ever knew. All they ever believed in. Beliefs are hard to change.... and sometimes take something drastic....like a resurrection. That's why some of the gentile Christians didn't have the same struggles since they had no preconceived notions of their new Savior and accept His grace.

Grace is a hard concept for some to grasp. To be given something one does not deserve and cannot earn just doesn't make sense in this world. We are taught from birth actions have consequences, therefore the good actions yield good consequences and vice versa. The result of this teaching is a mentality of EARNED blessings.

This is not so with the Lord. Grace is the free gift of salvation to US, bought and paid for by someone else! Jesus Christ!!

Hallelujah!!

Great question and you received some wonderful answers. The gospel of God's saving, sanctifying grace is the greatest message the world can ever hear. We know how laws work. They work in conjunction with our sinful nature. If a law exists, we instinctively seek ways to break it. If a law says be in bed by 11:00, it is fun to try to get away with staying out til 12. If a law says "do this" we will seek ways "not to do this." When God says "don't covet" it is because we instinctively are covetors. When God's law says, "have no idols before Me" our hearts erect idol after idol after idol. This ought to show us how sinful we really are in the sight of an absolutely holy God and we are in desperate need of a Savior who can actually keep the law in our place where we have failed. We are all law breakers (the world does not want to hear that). The world wants to hear that God (if He exists at all) is a nice God, we are basically nice people, so please be nice boys and girls.

The truth is God is not nice, but holy, just, good, merciful, gracious, kind. That is a far cry from God is "nice." Because God is good, He must reward disobedience and His holy justice, and reward faith with His grace. People will get one of two things with God in the end. His holy justice for rejecting His Lordship or His saving grace for exercing faith in God's provision for our sinful condition in repenting of our sin and trusting in Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior of our sins.

If God did not punish evil in the end, then "only the good die young" and we mind as well eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die. Then Adolf Hitler wins the die for exterminating and torturing Jews, Christians, and others who did not live up to the Arian race standards of humanity. He got to die the way he wanted in a private cave taking poison while millions of others died aganozing brutal, humiliating, barbaric deaths. Should a "nice God" say, "poor Adolf, he just lost his way, I will sweep his sin under the carpet and look the other way and take him to be with me with all those who followed Me and paid with their lives because they were faithful to the end."

God does save sinners. God does save murderers, rapists, and other offenders in prison cells. Some conversions are genuine, some are not. The genuine ones get God's grace and forgiveness, the hypocritical ones get God's justice. The same with everyone else. We either get God's grace or His justice. No one gets injustice. Some get grace. Those washed in the blood of Christ experiece His grace and love, those left outside who remain impenitent, callous, and reject the atoning death of Jesus Christ experience God's justice for unforgiven sin. Which will it be?

While Jews understood that God is both

1. Transcendent (beyond us - Creator, wholly Other), and

2. Immanent (with us - pillars of Cloud and Flame, the Shikinah glory over the ark in the midst of His people, the fourth in the furnace with the three in the book of Daniel),

they could not get their heads around that God would BECOME one of us (i.e., a man), which was their main stumbling block.

Note how when Jesus declared

1. that He was God's son (John 8, esp v. 58; John 5.18),

2. that before Abraham was, I AM (John 8.58ff),

3. that He was (the son of God) (matt 26.62ff; Mark 14.60ff)

The reactions to by the Jews to this were the same - they wanted to kill Jesus because He had declared himself to be equal with God. A man declaring that he was equal to God was blasphemy. And, except for Jesus - fully God and fully Man - it would still be blasphemy!

There is great credibility in this. But I thank the Lord that He was more obvious with our salvation. Something interesting in the text is that God promises to "restore" what the locust have eaten, and He did just that with their return from captivity. So much so that they were able to rebuild their temple, not once, but twice. The second being a magnificent edifice built by Herod the Great. So this lends credence to this parallel. Remember, a midrash comparison is only as good as its confirmation. God will repeat an important prophecy several times, and often in various ways. In my study "Joseph and the Seder Cups", I use this same technique to show how the cups used in the Genesis event parallel the Jewish Seder cups. These "cups" are prophetic, and there is one cup left to be fulfilled.

My belief for that time is, that God determined to show the Israelites that they could atone for their sins in a new and more visible light....Jesus! God knew that his chosen nation was going so far off path with their beliefs and rituals that he had to present himself in tangible embodiment in the form of Jesus to give them someone to bring them back toward God or he would have lost an entire nation....So he determined that Jesus would be the example and knowledge and way ....Yet, even with all that, we still see man with sin driving the wrong direction as we sit here and attempt to explain to those like the poor soul below your question...Soleil....with all his vengeance and hurt from his own life...It's evident to me that he was once knowledgeable in the Word of God and distanced himself because of his refusal to distance himself from sin...And these people really believe that because they have done this, they can escape God's wrath.

Do you ever listen to Tim Keller? (If not, may I highly recommend?) He speaks to this a lot. He talks a lot about The Prodigal Son and how there is not just one way to be lost (i.e. the younger brother who was lost living liscentiously) but two, also the elder brother who was lost because he was insistent on relying on his own works and duty as his salvation --- self-righteousness.

Paul says that Jesus is folly to the gentiles and a stumbling block to the Jews. Keller, again, speaks to this a lot and talks about how Jesus appears 'too hard' to those who are not religious, and 'too easy' to those who are religious. You see a lot of this here, actually, where people talk about how Christians act however they want, don't have to 'be a good person' to get to heaven, etc, etc. I swear it took me until about last year to understand that one of the biggest offenses of the gospel is *how easy it is*. It *really* makes people mad that being a Christian simply requires admitting that you are helpless and cannot save yourself. I think probably because they are so intent on saving themselves. Anyone who is buying into the BS modern narrative of "I'm a pretty good person, so and so is a pretty good person" is attempting to justify their existence, prove their worth and save themselves.

It's a very hard thing to lay down because it requires laying down pride and pride is basically invisible to us, do you know what I mean? The only way we can really lay it down is if Jesus finds us when lost and carries us home. (I heard another great sermon on this very topic, it was about sheep and how even once you find them they are utterly helpless to even participate in being found, they must still be *carried* home. It thrills my little calvinist heart, I'm sure it does yours as well).

I don't know if that sheds any light but some of those sermons are free and I'll see if I can find some good ones if you'd like for me to send them to you. By the way, Primoa, if we've talked about Keller numerous times in the past, forgive me. The old noggin isn't what it used to be. Or maybe it was just never anything that great to start with. ;)

Wow, you are getting some weird answers!

They have a relationship with God through the law. A personal relationship was so foreign to them that it was nonsensical blasphemy.

Without the conviction of the Holy Spirit none of us would come to a saving knowledge of the Messiah.