Do you think most Martial Art schools lack the most important self-defense training?

Yes. Mostly because a lot of instructors simply don't have any idea on how to "teach" things like situational awareness, etc., while others simply choose to believe that all of those are included in the "package" (i.e. you take up a martial art, and you get some sort of Spider-sense as a result).

I believe that there are drills or concepts that can help a student move in the right direction. For instance in aikido there is heavy emphasis on zanshin, that every technique must be completed in a position ready to face another attacker (also emphasized in most silat styles); or aikido's version of randori, where a practitioner must always be aware of the three-four people going after him/her.

But aside from drills and lecturing about the need of situational awareness, behavior recognition, and avoidance, coming up with an effective teaching methodology to transmit these ideas is not easy.

I know what you mean. Whether or not it is even necessary to fight should be taught before you're taught how to fight.

Not everyone trains in martial arts for just self defence (or even for that at all), some do it for fighting in competitions. But since it can be used for self defence, whether that be the student's intent or not, when to use it should be taught.

Martial arts is more than just sport or self-defense, exercise or character development. But as all these characteristics and more, martial arts should be taught as a whole, not just a piece of the pie.

I think most people in today's society would be upset if they started training at a school that worked on only those skills until they were ready to actually learn to fight. I like the idea, however, learning to be aware and how to avoid situations and learning techniques are two different things. You can tell the difference between a good front kick and a bad front kick. Not so much with awareness and avoidance.

Sadly, yes. In my experience, even the best martial arts technical training I've seen lacks any focus on anything but tactical self-defense. I've actually made it my personal "mission" to integrate all aspects of self-defense into martial arts training.

I would approve of a place that worked on those things first. It would serve the needs of the people training and the ones who totally hated it and left may eventually realize the value of what they refused but at least the were offered.

Special Note on Knife defense:: Defending against a knife is completely situational. The only real strategy is to make sure you are attacking the knife weilding aggressor while using whatever you know to avoid the knife, not capture and control it (capture and control is luck, take the advantage if it is presented but that should never be your focus). 70% of victims of knife violence never made any effort to attack the person attacking them.

Special note on Gun Defense:: I've trained for a long time. I've trained gun defense. I estimate my liklihood of surviving a lethal encounter vs. a gun at close quarters range at about 40% against a non-trained gun weilder. About 5% against a trained gun weilder. I don't think it gets much better than that so training gun defense without telling every single person you train that it's the absolute last resort when you are 100% positive the person weilding the gun is going to kill you no matter what you do is irresponsible.

I've had guns pulled on my 4 times. In each of those situations compliance was the best choice because their motive was not murder. I suppose I'd be dead if I had misread the situations, but I guess I didn't.

There is a lot that can be discussed about this but I will try to stick to the questions you asked.

Lack?

Yes. I think 95% or so are lacking in the key areas. But, even for myself, most students in most classes are not really honestly interested and willing to study self-defense properly. It is too scary. It is too difficult. It doesn't fall into a neat "traditional" or sport class.

When?

I think all elements should be introduced from the very beginning. I say "introduced" and I mean just that. Explored, studied, etc are typically left to individual students. I think very few teachers would be willing to teach 12 year old boys techniques like eye-gouges, pulling the skin of the mouth (like a fish hook), etc. And scaring and attacking students out of stairwells, etc can be just too risky. What if the student fell down the stairs? Do you really want to spend the next year or so in court? At the hospital bedside of that poor 22 year old girl who now has a serious back or knee injury? Reality cannot easily be taught. And only a few are truly interested in that area.

Stay?

I guess it would depend on the student's goals and interests. I don't want to study only fighting, only self-defense and reality. I think the "art" offers a lot more. Focusing on "what if" too much takes away from all the other "right now" things. Living in the now (and I do not mean in the shallow sense) is much more important to me.

If it's street fights then you want Judo or Aikido, they involve more throwing and put downs rather than explosive punches and kicks. Try looking at Bushido. Mix this with Aikido and you are good to go with any nearby weapons too. there is one Kung Fu move which I find irresistable on any to$$er that comes funny with me. That is to stamp on his shin at a 45 degree agle (or there abouts), trust me when I say he will not be walking never mind fighting......another is to do the the following.....try it on a willing friend or something to see it's power. On your chin in the centre you can feel a slight raised bit of bone. If you hit this part you can knock someone out clean, I suggest you try a very soft version on your friend (and I mean not too hard but not too soft), I had it done to me in training and I had a bruise for about a week! Had the excercise been to knock someone out not demonstrate how to do it, then it could have been worse! I'll say one thing though, you don't need martial arts to win fights, they really are a last resort as can be deadly!! My suggestion to you is that you work on speed and agility in a boxing gym. I'm a weight lifter and am pretty big, this means nothing in fighting; yes I'm strong but what you need is experience points! These points can only be gained by your aggresion and confidence. I don't appreciate people out for a fight but where I live it happens all the time so why not be prepared!? Use these pathetic people as your practice dummies BUT ONLY IF THEY START FIRST OR YOU WILL BE AS BAD AS THEM!!!!

Honestly, I have learned how to survive on the streets and there is no class in the world that can teach you how to do that. It sounds good to teach situational awareness, and behavior recognition, and avoidance but in the end there are things that no one can ever cover. There are people out there that are flat out psychotic and seem like the nicest person in the world until you have turned your back.

No Martial arts school can teach you the right places to sleep so you don't get heckled by the cops or woken up by hookers and then get woken up again by their angry pimps for turning down their girls.

You can train to fight all day long and do all of the awareness training in the world but it will not help until you actually face the reality of it. I guarantee it is different!

I don't know. Maybe I have a tainted view of the world now a days but I do know that there is so much in life you just can't train for.

Edit: You said "But for the most part, thugs and unscrupulous types are relatively easy when you know what to look for."

This can be true and normally just growing up and paying attention to where you are will keep you out of these problems. On the flip side of this, I was at taco bell the other day and a huge group of people walked in rigt before I did. There was like 10 of them and the all seemed like the loud mouth kids that cause problems...they looked "thugish". When the first one found out they did not have the special he wanted he looked at me and said "Yo dog, you go first". Yes there are many signs but every single one can be decieving.

I actually did not answer your question lol. Do I think that many schools do not teach self defense other than just fighting. I would have to agree with this. Most want to teach the art and forget that fighting (weapons or other) should be the last part of self defense. They may preach the walk away method but forget the part about not walking down dark alleys or listening in parking garages. But in the end, again, until you've been there you don't know what it is like. And once you've been there, there is only so much of it you can teach and hope it helps save some one. No matter what you know or have been taught it can fail you (Do you recall my question on the JKD self defense instructor a long time ago).

As far as I'm concerned, these should be taught as soon as possible. However, it works well only in adult classes. These are so important that we teach these concepts (More like drill them every class). Everything we do stems from the concepts of (Redirect, Distract, Off-Balance). The basic concepts are: 1) Avoid, 2) Evade, Never hit a person with your Hands, Feet, Elbows, Or Knees, (Jointed parts of your body), IF, you can find something harder to hit them with. 3) If a person is 6

Inches taller, or 50 pounds heavier, drop back to rule number 2, or rule number 1 if possible. 4) make sure you finish what you start. Many people have become injured or killed because they controlled a fight, only to back away and allow the attacker to attack again. NOTE: this is commonly seen in classes that have students defeat an attack and then back up and assume a defensive position to see if the attacker is going to attack again..... Why would anyone do that ....?

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i think first of all,instructors need to be really honest with students about what you can do and what you cannot do,i see many places in which they teach people how to take down a person with a gun.that is so false,even for a highly self defense instructor that would be really difficult and it should not be tried only if absolutely necessary.people should not think or should not be tricked into thinking they can do something like that when they dont.with this i am talking about people o are made believe by their instructors that in their fifth class they are killing machines.with this said i can step and say what i think about what you have written.awareness,behaviour recognition,reading body language,looking in person's eyes,if they are read,lost or transmit aggression or many things more.about avoidance that is a great point that it should be taught also.not only avoidance but to avoid without being or looking insecure and always avoid and keeping awareness that the situation may not have ended yet and be ready for anything or netter leave the place.these things that you ask when should people start working,trainers should start working since the first day and every day after.you should always be aware of your surroundings,not only the place but people and objects in there.places you can escape or objects you can use to defend yourself or with which you could be attacked.so to resume my answer these thing are a must to teach for self defense instructors every day in class and also teach about how our attitude may project aggression to somebody else so then people won't be asking about why that guy hit me and i didn't do nothing to him.

That would definitely fall under the category of 'self-defence', but I that's something different than martial arts.

I think you need both. Situational awareness to avoid as many conflicts as possible, and martial arts to defend yourself in the few that you can't avoid.

Interesting question

edit: forgot to answer your last question... If I'm honest, a year ago I would probably have not bothered going back to that school.

Now that I've learned a bit more about martial arts and self-defence, I think I'd definitely stay. I would feel confident that a school so focused on protecting yourself, that I'd be confident any combat training I learn would be practical.

2 problems.

The sign on the door says among other things "self defense"so the student assumes everything he is taught is self defense.

The instructor himself believes everything he teaches is self defense.

My view is if it's legal in a tournament it likely isn't self defense.Tournament sparring is a recent (last 80 years)addition to martial arts and many in some dojo all of the true technique were dropped from practice to chase trophys and titles .

Your question is excellent but maybe you should ask "is tournament sparring really martial arts?"