To our catholic / orthodox friends, if Bible instructs us to pray or intercede only thru Jesus Christ?

Wow, to a person they all said the same thing. It's freaky....almost like they've all been brainwashed.

The Bible DOES tell us to intercede for one another. But that's just it - it tells US, living breathing actual Christians, not dead people who are in heaven, to pray for one another. Those letters from Paul were written to the churches, to live people, and do not at all mention praying to those who've gone home to glory already. In fact, the Bible says that we can only come to God through Christ. It says that Christ is our mediator, that HE is praying for us. And any time someone bows down to one of God's servants and reveres them, the servant, be it angel or man, tells them to knock it off and worship only God. Praying to someone is a form of worship, and the Bible makes it clear that the only one we are to worship is God.

The Catholic doctrine of praying to Mary and other saints is doctrinally defunct. You saw the Bible verses they mentioned - not one of them is talking about praying to saints. They're all taken out of context. It's not a doctrine that is supported by Scripture, not at all. Indeed, there are verses against such a practice.

I have asked this of catholics before. Their answer is always that they identify more with Mary (because she's a woman and they see her as their spiritual mother) or that they feel closer to a "saint" because they have a relationship with them. They believe that the "church triumphant" (those who are in heaven because they have died) have a close relationship with God and will be able to intercede and understand them better because they were not like Jesus in being fully God AND fully man. It's an interesting concept to say the least. They consider that those who are dead are just like those alive.

This ignores the forbidding of speaking to the dead--which is necromancy. They also reason that speaking with a "saint" in heaven is just like speaking to a person on earth and asking for prayer.

They have a relationship with Mary and the "Saints" but not the Saviour--JESUS.

This is scary indeed! Their Jesus did not pay for their sins--they are taught they must pay for those in purgatory. Their Jesus only paid for the guilt of original sin and that by performing all the required rituals they will shorten their time in purgatory.

These are heretical and deadly teachings. They oppose the Biblical doctrines of Christ Jesus to the core. They believe these things because they were taught them. They were told their religion was established by Jesus and that anyone outside their group is anathema.

God did not send his Son to set up a denomination but to call a people unto HIMSELF. When we look to man, instead of to God, we are walking outside of God's perfect will for our lives and are not walking in grace by faith to obey, live and believe on the True Jesus of the Holy Scriptures.

They have another Jesus, another Mary, another Gospel, another Spirit:

2 Corinthians 11:3-4, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

where in the bible does it specifically state not to pray or intercede, BUT, only through Jesus?

So are you saying it does not tell us then, to "pray for one another?" Can I not ask my priest to pray for me? Or my friend to pray for me?

Where specifically does it say that intersession should not be made "to" dead people? Are you referring to saints, whom the bible states offer prayers around the throne of God? Who make up the "cloud of witnesses". Now if you are a witness you can see, if you can see, your not dead. The bible says God is the God of the living-------not of the dead. (living mean all those who live and die in his love and in obedience to Him_) Dead, is those who are in hell and are satan's followers.

By the way the bible, with which you try to disprove the teaching of the catholic church, IS A CATHOLIC BOOK!! It---- is the catholic church who gave the world the bible---- why would the church give a bible that is against it's own teachings? NO, it would not, in fact, the protestants took out 7 books from the bible----we did not add any books----as some mistakenly think---so you should learn some truth before you try to instruct catholics on what the bible says, if it was not for the catholic church, you would NOT have a bible----------------then what on earth would you do??? We get our church from christ and the church was NOT the product of the bible___RATHER---The bible is a product OF THE CHURCH!!

We use icons as reminders of what Jesus has done for us. Images of Jesus and the saints have been used for decorational and devotional purposes since the beginning of Christianity. Today, only the most grossly uninformed person gives any credence to the old accusation that Catholics worship these statues or pictures. Several hundred years ago, the Council of Trent explained the practice perfectly: “The images of Christ, the Virgin Mother of God, and of the other saints are kept and honored in churches not because it is believed that there is any divinity or power in these images, or that anything may be asked of them, or any faith put in them. “The honor shown to them is really being given to the persons whom they represent. Through these images , we worship Christ, and not the saints whose likenesses they display.” Even many Catholics do not realize that, since such pictures and statues become intimately connected with what people believe about God and his revelation, the church is very careful about what images are allowed for public veneration. All such pictures or sculptures must be approved by the bishop or other proper authority. The reasons most Protestant denominations do not allow images in their churches are varied. One is that, early in the Protestant Reformation there was much misunderstanding about the meaning of honoring images of Jesus and the saints nd “no statues” became one of the symbols of protest against the church of Rome. For the first 1600 years of Christianity, most people couldn't read or write. Every stained glass window and statue in medieval Churches told a story. Illiterate people could look at the stained glass pictures on the windows of the Churches and understand the story. So not only were the statues and paintings beautiful and reverent, but they were also very functional. They told the Bible story and the Priest could point to them during his homilies. Statues and stained glass were, for them, teaching tools and reminders. If we walk around any classic sanctuary and we'll see the statues, each saint holding his symbol. A well trained Christian could learn the stories of all those saints, and pass them along to his children, even if he couldn't read. This also explains the classic format of the windows: a large central picture surrounded by a host of smaller vignettes. With proper explanation, one could learn the whole story of, say, John the Baptist, along with all important tie-ins to the life of Christ. These were not false images to be worshiped, but reminders of the story of Salvation. Catholic Christian †

Well we have shared the truth but you have already set your mind against truth. The shame of it is you reject the writings of the first Church fathers that followed the Apostle because there not mentioned in the Bible. You like most fundie Protestants only go by selected verses and ignore others that would actually correct your interpretation. I can say this with authority because i was once like you,but my Lord God and savior shed the light of truth upon me. If the Holy Spirit was indeed teaching you and all the other differing beliefs your beliefs would be one. The Bible says or as Paul stated GOD is not the author of confusion and thirty thousand different understandings of the Bible certain qualifies for confusion. The Church understands and knows GODs Holy Spirit for guidance and Truth is Granted to his Church and its followers. You understand through the mind of Man where as the Catholic/orthodox Church understands through the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Your knowledge of Gods word is limited because you and all like you lack the fullness of the Gospel. So you come here thinking your showing us Catholics the truth where as we have the truth. There are granted Catholics that were either poorly taught or ignored the Churches teachings and those you may confuse and get to leave Holy Mother Church. But there are far more who do believe and trust and have knowledge of our faith. Most of us will ignore trying to show you the way as to us it is apparent you've already chosen your way. May God at some point show you the light of truth that you will learn from and enter the light from your darkness.

I agree with you. The idea of worshiping saints came from Henotheism, a Roman religion which worships multiple gods. The idea of worshiping Mary came from the cult of Isis, and Egyptian based religion that worshiped a mother-goddess. Constantine integrated these religions into Christianity, which evolved into Catholicism over time. I wrote an article on the history of Catholicism which you can read in the link below. God bless.

Holy smoke. But it is so provided in the bible and truly biblical. Here's your assignment.

1] Rev 5:8 When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the "prayers of the holy ones."

Rev 8:3 Another angel came and stood at the altar,holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne.

4 The smoke of the incense along with "the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel."

Edit: Cdn christian, St Paul prayed for Onesiphorus, who has died.

2 tim 1: 16 The Lord give mercy to the house of Onesiphorus: because he has often refreshed me and has not been ashamed of my chain:

17 But when he had come to Rome, he carefully sought me and found me.

18 The Lord grant unto him to find mercy of the Lord in that day. And in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, you very well know.

Note: Here St Paul prayed for Lord's mercy on Onesiphorus on "that day".

Rowan is exactly correct.

"Intercession should not be made to dead people - whether it be Mary or the Saints. How do you take this?" I take it like this..

"[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

"the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

And Canadian - we all say the same because we all know our faith

No where in Scripture are we told to put our eyes upon anyone other than the Lord himself. We are told to fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith (Heb. 12:2). In addition, it is Jesus who is the model of virtue, not Mary. Though she was greatly blessed, and undoubtedly a godly woman, she still needed a savior. Mary said, "And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior," (Luke 1:47). Contrary to the Roman Catholic teaching that Mary was sinless, Mary herself admitted that God was her savior. A sinless person does not need a savior. It is in the person of Jesus that grace and truth (and virtue) are best exemplified. Our eyes should be kept on him.

http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/roman-cath...

Catholic and Orthodox Christians teach that Jesus, true God and True Man, is the only mediator and sacrifice

Saints, as members of the Body of Christ, are to be asked to be prayer partners just as mortal people in grace are

You are a hypocrite, because you say "why do we need others to intercede for us", yet you will pray for others and others will pray for you in your church. The bible also tells you to do this, and I don't need to point out where because you obviously know your bible since you are a Christian.

You are also a blasphemer and have no faith in Jesus, because you insult Mary and all the Saints when you say "they are dead", but Jesus promised us and them eternal LIFE, and if they are all brothers and sisters of our Lord, then you insult Jesus, who is God, and so in turn you insult God, and an insult to God is blasphemy.

So you just keep on being a big hypocrite and a blasphemer, but as for me I'll keep asking those Saints who are alive with Christ to pray for me, because Lord knows I need as many prayers I can get. And we all know the prayers of a just man avails much (because that's what the bible tells us), and who is more just then he who is alive in heaven with our Lord?