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Lv 4

If God breathed the breath of life into human beings; why did he make other animals self-aware?

For my lovely atheist friends: this is a hypothetical question, meant to bring light to questions I have concerning Abrahamaic beliefs. I love all my atheist contacts, but this is specifically aimed at Abrahamaists.

NOW THE QUESTION: Wouldn't that kind of suck to be, say, a chimp, a dolphin, or a magpie (all demonstrably self-aware animals)? I mean, you are aware of your own existence; you see yourself as an entity that exists in this world; and you can see yourself as a separate piece of reality. And then, POOF, you're done. Apparently, God doesn't give a rat's a*s about you continuing your conscience.

Why not make ALL animals unaware of themselves? Wouldn't things be less complicated? Why make animals who can also learn to count, use sign language, and recognize themselves? Why give other animals the intelligence and awareness of AT LEAST a young human child, if it's all for naught?

CHIMPANZEE SELF-AWARENESS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-pc_M2qI74

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kY6QS8BBZE&feature...

MAGPIE SELF-AWARENESS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRVGA9zxXzk

DOLPHIN SELF-AWARENESS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHUuX_rBuJE

You can watch the rest of this interesting series here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/fuckinusernamestaken

PLEASE NOTE: These videos are not of animals who are "above average" in intelligence for their species, or special in any way. These are normal individuals, and many are used to make these observations. Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone makes the point that "oh, those are just anomalies." They are NOT anomalies.

Update:

ANOTHER POINT: I understand that these are pulled from Youtube, but you can find these videos anywhere on the web, and especially on research websites. I just used Youtube because I could use one search engine to find all the videos I need.

Update 2:

seeker of Holy God: I'm CONVINCED you didn't take the time to see ANY of those videos. Probably because you don't want to be proven wrong in your baseless assertion?

Update 3:

THOR's son: Yes, alright. But I'm not asking this from the point of view of a believer; I'm asking this as an interviewer to an interviewee.

Update 4:

John quill Quill: Always a source of endlessly relevant wisdom, aren't you?

Update 5:

(((((Meddy))))), my shnoogly woogly. Are you coming to NYC for Christmas?? YOU BETTER!!! :O

Update 6:

Internet for God: You answered the wrong question. I didn't ask whether or not animals have souls; that was another question. I asked WHY God would make animals that are self-aware (i.e. aware of themselves) if he was going to let them become nothing in the end. What happens to that self-cognizance?

Update 7:

Moon Ninja: Thank you. That was the type of thoughtful theorizing I was looking for, and it's interesting that it came from an atheist. I actually just thought about that two minutes ago so I'm glad you brought that up! (((Ninja)))

Update 8:

Phlarp: Of course that wasn't disappointing! That was honest and thoughtful. Thank you.

Update 9:

Greg: "What separates man from the animals? Language, which is the ability to grasp symbolism, philosophy, morality, mathematics, and thus the breath of life is a rational soul."

Ah, but these very same animals are capable of demonstrating at least a POSSIBLE comprehension of that! I highly recommend you view the videos I posted. As for morality...well, that's a different topic. I personally find animals that are NOT considered self-aware to be moral, like my dog, for example. But that's my own and subjective opinion based on personal experience, so I won't officially submit it as evidence.

Update 10:

Ceiling Catte: That's another good point; but how exactly is the ability to lie significant of a lack of reasoning? I also know for a fact that dogs, for example, actively engage in deception.

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=eHV_8YC...

Hiding treats/social cognition:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleUR...

Update 11:

Ceiling Catte: I would think that the motivation behind both are the same. Lying is a type of deception, right? So they are at least in possession of the precursor to lying, in a way.

18 Answers

Relevance
  • 1 decade ago
    Favorite Answer

    Can I answer this if I put on my ex christian hat? It's satisfyingly big and pointy. :)

    I'm going to anyway. There's a big difference between recognizing your body in a mirror and understanding that you as a person have a different perspective and separate knowledge from another individual. The acid test of self awareness as a separate entity is the ability to lie, knowing that the person that you're lying to doesn't know that you know that you're lying. It demonstrates that the subject understands that their experience is subjective and different from another person's subjective experience. Children only acquire this ability sometime after their third year. I don't know of any instances in the animal kingdom of deliberately lying. Obviously cryptic camouflage is a different matter.

    @ Greg - sorry to burst your bubble, but there's a sulphur crested cockatiel called Dorothy that has an 800 word vocab (bigger than any of the great apes) and is capable of understanding abstract concepts like mathematics. She could perform arithmetic calculations.

    Bonobos have a language of about 80 different calls and those calls are dependent on cultural differences between troupes. Is that rudimentary language?

    All social animals have morals. Lions are great examples as are wolves. Animals not pulling their weight in either circumstance get disciplined.

    Edit - I'm not sure that deception in play and lying are the same thing. Play is an appetitive behavior, lying is cognitive.

  • 1 decade ago

    "Wouldn't that kind of suck to be, say, a chimp, a dolphin, or a magpie (all demonstrably self-aware animals)? I mean, you are aware of your own existence; you see yourself as an entity that exists in this world; and you can see yourself as a separate piece of reality. And then, POOF, you're done. Apparently, God doesn't give a rat's a*s about you continuing your conscience."

    No, because I wouldn't be aware of a god that doesn't care about me.

    You can't miss something you never knew was possible.

  • 5 years ago

    Hi,

    Well, I am going to try and address your QUESTIONS and/or CONCERNS in order. OK here we go.

    1. 'APPARENTLY GOD DOESN'T GIVE A RATS --- ABOUT US - AFTER ' LIFE ON EARTH'. If you read the bible there are hundreds, no, thousands of references which speak of our life here on earth, as we attain to the after-life (i.e. heaven or hell according to Christian belief). Ex: It speaks of how heaven is going to be. It tells us we will each have a crown of glory. There will be no more pain, sorrow, etc. Even the animals were addressed over and over, such as living together from cats, dogs and birds to lions, tigers and bears! So, I don't know how or why you think God doesn't care or address this, because he does.

    2. WHY NOT MAKE ALL THINGS, PEOPLE AND ANIMALS, AND UNAWARE – LESS COMPLICATED? - according to Christianity, the bible, the Lord made 'man & wo-man' (lol) for so he would have companionship. To love and be loved. It is the difference between religion and relationship. Those with religion – generally don't read the bible, or pray. So, how can you know your Father (God) if you don't read his love letter(s) to you? Those with relationship – do read the word and work on being more like him (i.e. full of goodness, love, kindness, mercy, grace, peace, joy, hope, etc.). They don't just flop around aimlessly but rather pray to be in and do, His will.

    a) HUMANS - why do we make babies? Because we want to love and be loved and have relationship with that child. God is NO different here. He made us for this very purpose. We reproduce and exchange the same love, etc. to our children, and so on...

    b) ANIMALS – were made for us to be 'over', i.e. attend to with care as we are supreme over animals. They are made with allllll types of personalities, breeds, types, etc. and all with their own purpose and function in the world – to literally make the world go round. The functions in the food chain in the ocean(s) for example, are, well, nothing short of AMAZING! It's so complicated, yet makes so much sense, it's CLEAR that something SUPER-natural HAD to happen!

    3. WHAT SEPARATES MAN FROM ANIMALS? Without even addressing the bible, my declaration would seem obvious. We can talk and make decisions and provide. Animals cant. Therefore my conclusion would be that BECAUSE we can do these things, we would be care takers of animals to make sure the wild are not overhunted, slaughtered, and other abuses, and that the domestics be our 'pets' to care for and love, and be loved in return. (FTR: wild animals can be domesticated and taught to be a 'pet'. How much they -love love – who knows!)

    4. ANIMALS AND DECEPTION – animals don’t KNOW it's deception (or any other tool they use to hunt or quality they use to love). Whereas humans – DO KNOW – when they are being deceptive, manipulative, etc. Another example: when we look in the mirror we KNOW it's a reflection of us. An animal does NOT KNOW it's a reflection. Their brain, is not made to know, understand, or be obedient. They don't KNOW these 'words'. They ONLY know that, for example – they get a treat when they do what we ask. Another example: My bird knows how to talk, but does NOT KNOW what she is saying. Do you get this? (thank u ceiling catte).

    5. IN CONCLUSION – Whether we believe in God or not, these answers seem clear, to me, anyway. I mean, it just all makes sense. We humans have the ability to live. ANIMALS EXIST AND ABIDE BY THEIR MASTERS COMMANDS OR THE DEMANDS OF THE WILD.

    I hope this cleared things up for you. However, I will say this: if you are STEADFAST on your belief that God is a tyrannical, dictatorial, God of intimidation, pain and sorrow, then, NO ONE can change your mind. You, and your heart, will decide what to do.

    We can always rationalize to see OUR side, OUR point. Then, there's really no reason to ask – why or how, etc., because that person will always find a way or reason or excuse – as to why and how it DOESN”T MAKE SENSE...

    So, it's up to you. Thank u :)

  • Greg
    Lv 7
    1 decade ago

    What does the breath of life have to do with being self-aware? Animals are irrational creatures, we do not go to them for moral or ethical guidance. They are not able to philosophize, they do not ask "What's the meaning of life?"

    What separates man from the animals? Language, which is the ability to grasp symbolism, philosophy, morality, mathematics, and thus the breath of life is a rational soul.

    The word makes reality, the word is the breath of life. If not for the word, man would be nothing more than an irrational beast.

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  • 1 decade ago

    There is nothing in the bible that says animals don't go to heaven. I expect to see all of them there plus many that we have never even imagined. Animals never sinned. They were never given any command to break.

  • Anonymous
    7 years ago

    Because the Bible was written by Human Beings and not Gorillas

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    Sorry to be a huge disappointment, because you know how super my answers usually are.

    But, I do not know. NO one can know. And that is something we have to come to terms with, the possibility of being WRONG, before we can settle ANYTHING.

    Source(s): My logic and stuffz
  • ?
    Lv 7
    1 decade ago

    Hey Avocado, I think that it's interesting, but I'm not quite sure these animals actually have death awareness, and are aware that someday they will die. While they might have a sense of the self like we do, so I don't think they worry about death like we do. Have you ever seen any studies done on death awareness?

    I think animals just try to survive, they certainly can recognize danger and try to avoid it, but I'm not quite sure if they are aware that some day they will die, like humans are.

    (((Avo))) No problem :) anyways, I think that death awareness is part of why humans have religion; we are worried about death, so we have hopes and dreams of what may come after death, maybe a continued existence somewhere. It's part of evolutionary programming that tells us living organisms to try and survive, even though we don't know why we want to. We just do what we do.

    Interesting question, though.

    @ MedNerd It's cool mate, some hater just made multiple accounts to thumb everyone down. The thumbs down fairy strikes here and there.

  • ?
    Lv 6
    1 decade ago

    If I were a Christian, I'd say that life evolved to the point of sentience. Then god gave humans a spirit, in addition to the souls (brains) that all other higher life forms had. I would argue that the "breath of life" is spiritual.

  • ?
    Lv 7
    1 decade ago

    It's a really simple answer: animals do not possess a soul.

    If your question is based on scripture and you're asking for an answer from scripture, it's that man is the ONLY creature "created in the imagine of God".

    I appreciate the amount of typing you did for that, apologies my answer is so concise and to the point.

    Added: I think you're confusing "instinct" with "self-awareness". Different concepts.

    Added, added: Man, your friends are really trashing my answers, lol....3 thumbs down and counting. To add to my previous comment, you can only theorize that animals are 'self-aware". I think you're guilty of anthropomorphism.

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