Do you teach how to sucker punch and blind side? If not a teacher, have you been taught how?

I do and for two reasons. First by knowing and understanding some of these tactics they are less apt to work on my own students then especially from a self-defense stand-point. Knowing to hold your hand up and looking at the time while keeping an eye on someone instead of looking down at your watch for instance has saved more than one of my students from being mugged. Besides knowing tactics like this awareness and avoidance are also key to avoiding some situations and making yourself a hard target for muggers, rapists, and other criminal types to take advantage of and prey upon and should always be stressed and taught in a self-defense program or class as well as to students that have a need which is most anyone when you think about it.

Secondly I teach such tactics to my students so that they themselves can use them if the situation warrants it. Who would not want their daughter to use such a tactic like sucker punching some guy by kneeing him in the nuts while on a date because he did not want to take no for an answer? Sometimes things go down a certain path where sucker punching someone or blind siding them is warranted and in one of the situations that involved a gun and some idiot that was going to shot me I did not wait for him to get the gun out of his boot that I knew he carried before cracking his head open with an ash tray. I only waited till he started to reach for it and that's enough in a situation like that. In these type of situations there are no rules and things like sucker punching someone or blind siding them are all on the table and if a person needs to rely on one to better survive that situation then they better use it and having knowledge of it before hand is needed.

No, I haven't been taught what a lot of people call a sucker punch or blind side, but there are certain things I have been taught that do take advantage of similar situations such as a diverted attention or an unseen opening.

I've always been told to take advantage of any situation if you see it necessary. I don't think it should be emphasized on, but it should be something brought to a students attention. Knowing how to do something also proved the insight on how to avoid it or even counter, so there is a point, but for how deep the martial arts stream runs, I'm not so sure it would ever really have to be.

EDIT

It's kind of hard to imagine a sucker punch or a blindside ever coming from the assaultee. More often than not those are used by the assaulter. It's possible... no way am I going to doubt it, but the situation arising from such an encounter where the one attacked gets to sucker punch the one attacking. Perhaps when he's down and the guy turns around thinking it's over. That would be a good time for a blindside. I know I wouldn't hesitate to use either if I felt I was threatened.

I have been taught to employ these tactics any time I have the chance and I know a fight is about to break out and have no other option, such as running the hell away. For a sucker punch example, three wannabe gangsters are threatening me, pushing me around, and I know it's going to escalate into violence. I'm going to grab one, knee him in the nuts, sucker punch the hopefully shocked second guy and then focus on the last guy keeping my torso pointed towards the downed second guy, while the second guy hopefully doesn't get the **** back up and attack me. For a blind side example, say I see some guy trying to rape some girl in an alley. I'm certainly going to sneak up from behind him, grab a rock or bottle or something heavy, and smash him over the head with it, stomp him in the face once or twice to make sure he's not getting up anytime soon, make sure the girl isn't in need of immediate medical attention, and if she's not sit on top of the guy and call the police with my cell phone. If she is, stomp on the guy one or two more times, and then take the girl to the hospital while calling the police on my way, or if an ambulance is needed, sit on top of him and call for both cops and an ambulance. If I didn't use these tactics in these situations there's a good chance one of the wannabe gangsters or attempted rapists may have had a gun, and shot the **** out of me, or simply bested me in our fight, endangering me, the girl, and any other potential innocents. Thus I find them invaluable, and extremely useful for use in defending oneself and other innocents.

We do not teach the sucker punch. We teach defense against sucker punches. In karate there is no first attack. It is not an attack if you strike first in order to prevent yourself from being harmed. Practically every technique is blind side. Nothing is obvious. I believe the martial artist should speak in a non threatening manner. I should never look like a threat. Being 5'7 I don't appear as much of a threat. I'm quiet and calm. But that is also the deception that allows my techniques to be deceptive.

I saw a couple of ways to use a surprise attack like the ones you described.

Surprise is a result of a tactical advantage, previously unknown. While most people apply it in sucker punches, if a person understands the basic concept, it makes it easier for them to integrate their techniques into it.

As a practical matter, the first thing I took away from it was to not get surprised if it can be helped. Learning how to take advantage of surprise against others, makes that lesson sink in.

A lot of the knife attacks are carried out in a way that it cannot be seen. That's both 1 and 2.

Concerning self defense laws, it depends. If you attacked using pre-emption, and you can explain why you thought you were in eminent danger of gross bodily harm, then the laws apply if you should happen to cripple or kill the assailant and he tries to press charges. Well, if he is dead, the state or his family will be the ones pressing.

First, you must be able to explain your frame of mind such that it justifies pre-emptive measures in SD. Second, the evidence needs to be consistent with the story. If it isn't consistent, you need to have a "valid explanation" for why it isn't.

One of the things you don't want to do is to get on record in a criminal investigation that you admitted you attacked first. Because that's known as a bad admission against you. And in civil lawsuits, where the evidence isn't based upon "beyond a reasonable doubt" they can use that against you.

LOL

Of course.

One of my favorites, and this is a favorite of my wife as well, is to throw something anything at the attackers face to distract them and than let em have it in the chops.

In self defense use any advantage, deception, surroundings, and sometimes the attackers buddies.

This is why it is called Martial Arts. is it not??

Am I missing something?

To JWbulldog Never is a long time. While I do teach self defense and never to be an aggressor there is always the possibility you may need to attack. If that need were to arise for me it would most likely have to be a decisive attack because it would have to be a life in the balance to cause me to react. Not a likely situation and I pray never to have to be in such a situation. Just look at the news and you can see the probability exist. I feel it would be remiss on my part not to prepare my senior students for that eventuality.

I can't imaging holding anything back from my adult students. Life is too complex for me to see into their futures and predict every situation they in a lifetime may encounter. So if I know how to break a neck so will my student. If I know how to sneak up on someone and use the cover of natural sounds in a room or outside to do it so will my students. Frankly I believe in a strict code of ethics for my students. Why would that be important if their skills were not formidable. Though I can not know what each of them would do in the future I have to give them the benifit of the doubt based on my educated opinoin. How can anyone not prepare their students for the absolute worst case. Some of our students have gone into the military. How could I face them if I didn't let them have all I know to increse their odds of survival?

Martial arts is not a game. At least it is not with me.

I don't believe it would be a real self defense situation if you were to use such tactics. Most of the time anyway.

If you blind-side someone, as you said, they are unaware of your presence. So, why are they a threat and why should you defend yourself from them? If you blind-side someone, you're the attacker. Unless they are attacking someone else and you use the element of surprise.

If you sucker punch someone, by your definition, their guard is down and they are probably no longer a threat to you. Again, making you the attacker. However, I have trained to use certain deceptive tactics to distract and confuse my opponent. So, a sucker punch (or a variation) can be useful in self defense situations and should be taught.

In formal aikido classes? Of course not. It kinda goes against the whole peace and harmony thing...

However, I've attended seminars which covered things like restraining techniques (slightly modified from basic aikido kihon) performed on unsuspecting uke from behind. So, no sucker punches, but some blind siding.

Should these concepts be taught as part of martial art training? Absolutely. At the very least, a student should be taught to be aware of the possibility of being sucker-punched or blind-sided and how to deal with that possibility.

But aside from the "how to" - thus the "why" and "when", i.e., tactics and strategies of employing those concepts - should be restricted to senior students who are (hopefully) mature and responsible enough to understand the real value of those techniques.

EDIT:

@Jim: IMHO, the situation with your student could have been resolved in a less violent manner. But, (1) he didn't initiate the conflict; (2) one of his 'opponents' had a knife, which constitutes a deadly threat; (3) this was more a case of your student's opponent being an imbecile, acting slopy, and creating an opening when he wasn't done with his "business"; and less about your student taking a "cheap shot" at him. So, IMO, your student was well within his rights to defend himself.

However, he was wrong in that he didn't address you as "Sensei Jim".

Sucker punches and blindsiding attackers is an essential part of self defense since theres no such thing as a fair fight. Sneak attacks are hidden through out Forms and Katas in every MA. Whether or not they are taught is up to the discretion of the teacher.

I personally believe they should be taught because its better to know how to do it correctly and not need it, than to need it and not know it.

Preemptive striking is something that I have never been taught. Back in my krotty days, we were taught from a purely defensive manner. Now my training leaves it up to me. Though I'm not specifically taught preemptive moves, nor do I expect to be taught them.

Sucker punching from a legal standpoint is acceptable in VERY few cases. There is always the question of what a "reasonable" person would do. Whats "reasonable" is debatable. I would imagine that if you believed your life to be in danger, sucker punching to get away, would be considered "reasonable." But there in lies the burden of proving that you felt your life was in danger....blah blah legal jargin. Anyways, I'm sure there's a few more scenarios. But none that I can really think of.