loud pipes for safety debate?

Noise, regardless of the source, will get your attention. I can hear sirens on an emergency vehicle long before I can see it or its flashing lights regardless if I'm on my bike or in my car with the windows rolled up. That's the whole point. Make the road users aware of the approaching vehicle. If a bike's loud pipes are loud enough and at the correct pitch they can alert other road users (cagers in particular) that a bike is in the vicinity of their vehicle. I agree with those that say "loud pipes save lives".

James is the only answer on here that states facts-siren pointing forward-pipes pointing backwards.For those who gave a thumbs down to this ponder this thought--An f-16 flies faster than the speed of sound at times,yet their approach can be as stealthy as a cat-you don't even know they are coming until they have pretty much gone past you.What you are talking about is driver distraction.If they are in a tunnel vision mode or talking on the cell phone,an atomic blast probably would not distract them...When my wife is talking to me when I'm watching a hunting show-do I hear her,nope because I'm being distracted by the t.v. In this day and age we all have multiple things that need to be done and some times our multi-tasking takes place at the wrong time and wrong place..............You know a lot about sirens but when a plane or jet lands they use reverse thrust which means exhaust is used to help slow the plane down and they do that by pushing it out the front-why when you look in the sky you see the contrail from a jet when it goes by you have to wait until it passes to hear it.I live by the medi vac at the hospital -a soft purr from the motor until it passes overhead then it rattles the windows.I have a feeling that the reason they put the sirens on originally was to move horses and dogs out of the way--they weren't going 5 either.C'mon fire back and let's debate this some more--tit for tat

A bit of background on me first: I've been a commercial driver (truck, taxi) and I've rode bikes and scooters for 45+ years ... and I'm a retired / disabled mechanic.

What good are loud pipes (probably about 105 Db) when a sound system is cranked up so loud the driver couldn't hear a fire truck emergency horn (175 total Db) right on his tail (I personally observed this one!)?? The van driver was cranking up the volume at the time! I could hear his stereo OVER the fire truck!!!

Or if the driver is on a cell phone (as reported by a fireman who had the driver pull out in front of the firetruck while it was running hot (lights, horn and siren)??

Now you might ask, how have I stayed alive for 45 years on bikes? or in a car, for that matter?

I drive defensively, not aggresively. I "drive" the cars in front, behind, on each side and the one I don't see. I'd rather give way to an idiot driver or a distracted one, then have a wreck.

Btw, I pay about $15 / mo. for basic car insurance on my old Jeep Cherokee and about $40 / year for my classic Cushman scooter.

Sirens on emergency vehicles are NOT effective with modern cars designed to be quiet inside.

That's why all the flashing lights. Personal experience talking there...

Sirens are still effective for pedestrians, but are becoming outmoded.

Look for new cars to have an electronic warning system built in soon.

Did you know that a bell is still a legal warning device? Replaced by sirens as our world got louder - and cars got windows.

Loud pipes don't save lives - watching your own backside does.

I heard "I didn't see you" myself. She didn't see because she never looked.

I saw her, just couldn't stop in time.

Later, I ran louder pipes. When I used those to let a woman know I was there, she panicked and drove like a total idiot. To get away from the "crazy biker", she suddenly took a right turn (which I was indicating for) and then pulled over - right across the end of the street I was going to turn into.

No blinkers, just brake lights and sudden panic reactions which could have gotten me hurt if I wasn't the one paying attention.

The whole time, she never got a decent look at me. It was the kids in the back seat that told her I was there to begin with.

I like my pipes louder than stock because I like to hear it run.

I don't like it too loud, for my comfort and those around me.

I ride for my own reasons, not one of them is to spread grief.

Now, I think I'll go read the other answers.

E: Thanks for the chuckles, guys. The same tired old false reasoning.

And a reminder of things past....

I used to have an air horn on my Suzuki (Fiamm, 2 horns).

One day, a truck decided to pull out of Dunkin Donuts right in front of me.

Once again, I saw the driver not see me.

I hit the horn.

His reaction was immeditate - without a glance at the mirror, he hauled the steering wheel around and climbed the curb onto the sidewalk.

Then, his head started swivelling around, looking for the big truck......

I gave him a smile and a wave as I went by.

Note: The horn came from a car parts store - fully legal noise-wise yet different tone.

The made-in-Mexico stock horn on my HD is just as noticeable.

When time counts, the button under my thumb is faster than 3 fingers and a foot.

The sound of an emergency siren is nothing like that of a reciprocating engine. The pitch is totally different. And of you don't think pitch has anything to do with it, then how can a dog hear a dog whistle when humans can't?

I now pose a question for you, if noise is an effective way of letting others know you're there, then how can people pull directly in front of a speeding train? Not only is the locomotive extremely loud, the whistles are ear piercing. And they have a headlight that can be seen literally for miles plus another light that wags side to side. And people still don't see of hear them.

There's a big hole in your theory that loud noise is going to get you recognized. People are more likely to see or hear you if they're looking out for you. If they aren't looking for a motorcycle, then all the noise, lights and even making eye contact won't register with them. Concerning the eye contact thing, I've been at an intersection, made eye contact with the person as they looked my way and they STILL pulled out in front of me.

If you're old enough to have kids, or if you don't but will eventually, you'll find that men in particular are very good at reading or watching the TV, oblivious to the kids screaming at the top of their lungs and tearing the house apart. (Women aren't as adept and they REALLY get pi$$ed at guys for tuning out the kids.) I know I can totally tune them out when I'm really immersed in a book, shop manual, etc, anything that requires serious concentration. That right there says that the volume of a sound means nothing to get your attention. But when my kids were babies in bed at the opposite end of the house, I could be sound asleep in the middle of the night and even their slightest wimper would wake me up. It all boils down to you're atuned to what you're listening for. You can intentionally tune out a playing or mad, screaming kid when you need silence for concentration, but you can be awaken from a deep sleep by the tiny sound of a baby or little kid that's sick. If you don't have kids, just wait, when you do, you'll find I know what I'm talking about.

So if you were wanting someone to give you a pat on the back for your genius in relating noise to attention, you're out of luck. Sorry.

First, if you have pipes that are loud enough to be the kind that "save lives", they are illegal. In CA the exhaust will need to be stamped that it meets noise and emissions limits starting in 2012 or so, and the rest of the country seems to follow CA so look for this soon as a way for local author ties to tell for sure if your exhaust complies or not.

Second, loud pipes piss people off. We are all responsible to promote our sport/hobby, and if we go around pissing people off all the time, we maybe regulated out of existence. i use again as an example the CA law which is a direct result of "loud pipes."

Third, the "loud pipes save lives" idea was contrived by riders that like their loud pipes becuase they like to be obnoxious, not based on any empirical data.

If you really want to be heard, forget the loud pipes, and get a really LOUD horn like FIAMM or Steibel (130-150 dB!!!). That way you will only make the noise when you really need it, and it will a A LOT LOUDER than loud pipes, and will be legal also.

In direct answer to your question... the sirens on emergency vehicles are much louder than loud pipes and are only used when necessary... LIKE A LOUD HORN.

Oh yea, and riding defensively goes a lot further than anything elase for safety on a motorcycle.

Loud pipes piss off the citizens. You can't hear loud pipes until they're right on top of you. This usually startles folks, especially cagers, and they can vote your butt off your bike. Think about that.

Emergency sirens are a much higher pitch and decibel level than a motor exhaust. And they're accompanied by flashing lights. Drivers are accustomed to listening and seeing emergency vehicles. Sometimes. Drivers are mostly distracted anyhow, any loud noise not a siren is bound to just upset. If you think you can warn a cager with your pipes, then use common sense. Turn them around so they're pointing forward.

Loud pipes do save the lives of our furry forest friends. The ones with the big ears that can swivel towards the sound.

Ride like you're invisible. Don't rely on loud noises, flashy lights or neon clothing. Ride like you are INVISIBLE, and you'll ride smart.

Some people are oblivious. They are not watching lights, signs, others on the road. They are especially not listening. If someone is about to hit you, it too late to hear open pipes.

On a motorcycle you have nothing to block your sight. There is nothing blocking sound outside. You also will be the person who is hurt is someone hits into you. You do not have the right-of-weight. You have to avoid others.

If you expect others to avoid you, you *will* be involved with a collision.

My motorbike was a brand new 1964 Honda C110.

I have never had a collision on a motorcycle.

It is possible to dodge.

It doesn't matter if you're pipes are loud. Even if your vehicle is completely silent you should be using YOUR eyes to stay out of the way of others. You can never depend on others to do it for you 100% anyways so take care of your own dam skin and don't be surprised when cars try sharing the lane with you. The pipe on my bike is pretty loud but really I wish it was quieter so I could get out of the neighborhood without pissing people off, but that's the way it is and I don't feel like spending the cash to replace the full exhaust.

Which way are the sirens pointed on an emergency vehicle? Toward the front.

Which way do the exhaust pipes point on a motorcycle? Toward the rear.

Where are most threats to the safety of a motorcyclist? Toward the front.

Do you really think took a lot of "deep" thought? If so, I worry for you.

The "civilian" version of a siren is called a "horn", by the way.