Religious folks that believe in "free will"...?

There is no such thing as free will if you believe in an omniscient god. That should be obvious, but it seems like it's hard to understand for christians.

This arguement supposes that the CAPACITY to know everything is synonymous with the EXERCISE of that capacity. This is not necessarily true.

To illustrate, if a parent has the CAPACITY to beat his child every day, does that mean he should be jailed for child abuse? Surely it is not the ability or the capacity to do something that should be judged but the EXERCISE or the using of said capacity.

The bible indicates that The Creator definitely uses his powers selectively, indeed on one occassion the omnipotent God (clearly who has the CAPACITY to destroy every living thing, exercised restaint and spared 7 individuals (Noah and his family) from destruction during the flood). Thus what he CAN do is not necessarily what he DOES do. Applying this biblical principle of restraint, although there have been occassions when the Creator has used his powers of being able to tell what the future holds, he has chosen NOT to predetermine every detail of every individuals life and this for good reason, since as critics have rightly contended, to do so would mean he would bear a part of responsibility in the outcome of his creation.

My friend I have continually answered this question for those of little understanding of the difference in foreknowledge and predestination.

God foreknowing something is not preordaining a thing, You have a free will, this does not mean God does not know the choices you will make before you make them.

God knowing something does not prevent you from making a choice.

God's plan is through Christ, Christians as a people are preordained, we are preordained through Christ.

This is not meaning your individual life is predestined.

Edit. AGAIN, you apparently can't understand the difference between foreknowledge and predestination, YOU CAN MAKE A CHOICE.

God does know the outcome of your choice.

Obviously you can only make one choice.. so changing the outcome is not a part of the question.

There can only be one outcome... either you choose the atonement or you don't.

What is to change.. you mean make one choice then another.. well so long as you are alive yes you can change your choices.. this too would however be something God would foreknow... none the less you are making free will choices...If this is beyond your reasoning, the problem is with your understanding.

Let's see if I can give you an example.. right now I will go to the refrigerator and choose to drink a soda... Now I am making a choice to do so... I am not preordained to do this it is my own choice.

The fact that God knew I was going to do this does not prevent me from making this choice does it?

Is this too complicated for you?

EDIT_____________________________________________________________________

I'm not sure what argument you are attmpting to make.. YES God is all knowing.

He knows the end of all things. There is only one outcome... this is not predestination.. it does not prevent us from making choices, it means those choices are foreknown.

Apparently this is confusing you... you want to think if God knows the outcome then you are not making a choice.. this is not what it means.. it means he knows the outcome of your choices.

You are still making choices.. the end result of these choices are known.. this is not preordained this is foreknowledge..

So..in you effort to show how "unintelligent religious folks are", you go out of your way to show yours? Dude..that doesn't make sense.

Scripture says everything is predetermined. It says before we were formed in the womb God knew us. You're stating the obvious to anyone who has read the Bible.

And yet it also illustrates the fact that we have free will to make decisions. God already knows what decision that we make and how those decisions will help or hurt us.That is why He warns us ahead of time not to do them but gives us the freedom to choose.

He is just like any GOOD parent but better. Agood parent doesn't micromanage their children/ If you do you kids can't mature properly. You don't act controlling but instead give your child the ability to screw up so they can learn from their mistakes.

When my kids were small I usually knew when they were going to make a kitchen run and thought they were sneaking the cookies without us knowing; I knew. When my technically inclined daughter's equipment started glitching I knew she would soon be sneaking into my tool shed to "borrow" the small expensive tools I told her not to touch. When they got older and went through their sneaking out of the house phase; I knew. They would always get so frustrated that they couldn't pull one over on me. I would point those things out to them after the fact and their would be repurcussions. But they still had the free will to do or not do those things if they chose. That is how you teach personal responsibility, they have to learn from their decisions that those decisions can effect others.

We must go through the same process with God, because even though we see ourselves as grown ups, we are still wayward children, and He is still trying to teach responsibility.

One day if you become a father...hopefully you'll be a good father then you'll understand these things.

lol why ask a question unless you actually want an answer.

The problem is that so much hellenistic philosophy has infiltrated christianity that we have been lead to believe that knowing the future has look a certain way. (and this certain way is invariably contradictory to free will)

But the God described in the bible seems to see the future not a line set in stone, but as a web of possibilities for each individual.

And each possibility is not settled until the individual makes a specific choice.

So God knows everything you might possibility do, without knowing what you actually will do until you decide to do it, and he can act within that framework.

Essentially for the biblical God, the future is settled to whatever extent he desires, and the rest is open to your individual choices.

I hope that's not too complicated for your wrap your head around.

I personally do not believe in predestination, which is what you are referring to. People can spend their whole lives trying to understand the nature of God. I just don't think it's possible to understand. As humans we are so limited in our understanding.

If you are looking for an answer to refute predestination then I can recommend this little clip from Thru the Bible Radio. They had a radio segment with J Vernon Mcgee and in this clip he talks about this doctrine and why he disagrees with it. There are also some other clips that talk about other issues similar to this one available.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnwmjZMfuVM

Now there are some that totally accept that predestination is true, that God predestines people for hell, I think most Presbyterians and other reformed theology believe that.

*EDIT ~ When you ask people a question about God, the answer you get will probably pertain to the god of their religion/belief system. Just saying.

*Double edit ~ The last part of my original answer states that people that believe in predestination do not believe in free will.

Omniscience and Predestination are not biblical. For example, according to Genesis 2:17, God forbade man to eat of a tree representing the right to sovereignty, the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad." Eventually, however, man ate the fruit and was castigated for doing so. (Genesis 3:1-19) As to God's character, were he "omniscient" or had "predestined" man's actions, why would he have verbally forbidden man to eat of the tree? Rather, God did not know the outcome much less "predestined" it. Similarly, at Genesis 6:6 God is described as "feeling hurt" or "regret" for having made men in the earth. Subsequently, God caused a global flood, destroying all mankind with the exception of Noah, who "walked with God," and his family. Would God have felt "regret" or "hurt" if he had "predestined" or in his "omniscience" had known mankind would rebel to such a wicked degree? Hardly. Furthermore, when God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son upon an altar, Abraham was halted by an angel. At Genesis 22:12 God stated: "NOW i do know that you are god-fearing." It was not until Abraham was just about to sacrifice his son that God "knew" he was faithful. Had God been "omniscient" or had "predestined" this event, why would he have allowed it to reach such a degree? And why would he state "NOW i do know"?

Therefore, the Bible does not describe God as "omniscient" in the sense of automatically knowing all things future nor does it lend to the idea that God "predestined" man's actions.

Rather, one of the fruitages of God's spirit, or character, according to Galatians 5:22, 23 is "self-control." In other words, rather than "omniscience" or "predestination," God has selective-foreknowledge. He obviously is described in scripture as having the ability to peer into the future, but he is selective about what he sees or when he chooses to use that ability. If he were not able to control his ability to foresee things he would not have "self-control" as Galatians describes God. God refrains from peering into future knowledge and events much as a loving father respects the privacy of his child. This is what allows free-will to continue as a gift to mankind and all other intelligent creatures.

Moreover, if God had created some and subsequently "predestined" them to an eternal "hellfire," he would be far from a loving or wise person. Rather than heaven, the Bible holds out the earth as man's ultimate home. (Matthew 5:5) And rather than hell, the Bible holds out eternal unconscious death as the castigation for wickedness. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6)

Religionists may rant and rave about "heaven," "hell," "predestination," and "omniscience," but it is their own illogical doctrines that cause persons to feel adverse towards the Bible. However, if a kitchen knife were used for a murderous attack, should kitchen knives be outlawed or the manufacturer be held accountable. Similarly, if the Bible is misused so to as to inflict confusion or injury on others, should the Bible or its Author be held accountable? Hardly.

If you have any further questions regarding the Bible, please feel free to contact me or find more information on the website www.watchtower.org.

I apologize IMITATION9 if I offended you for answering your question. I read it incorrectly. Sorry. Take care.

Yes, God gives us free will.

He does know all the choices we will make in our lives b/c He has the ability to see the END from the beginning.

He didn't MAKE us choose the things we do, but He knew we would make those choices.....

and having made those choices throughout our lives, where that would lead us ... with our names written in the Lamb's Book of Life and entrance into heaven, or to hell.

There is a BIG difference in Him KNOWING the choices we make and Him CAUSING us to make those choices through predestination.

Your start is false: who said God is omniscient?

Free Will means we can change our destiny.