Why did Jesus say "Before Abraham was: I Am." if He isn't God?

Many Bible versions render John 8:58 this way: "Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

And Ex. 3:14 this way: "God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

(Because of this, Trinitarians often refer to this as 'proof' that Jesus is the Hebrew GOD of the O.T.)

But are the words "I am" supposed to be God's name? Even if it were so, would it make sense in John 8:58 for Jesus to say the equivalent of, "Most assuredly I say to you, before Abraham was...JEHOVAH?!?"

Looking at the context, the correct phrasing of this sentence should be "I was" instead of "I am" when used after the word "before." Also in verse 57, the question to which Jesus was replying had to do WITH AGE, not identity.

During the exchange with the Jews leading up to John 8:58, NOWHERE DOES JESUS CLAIM TO BE GOD. And as we've already seen, the words "I am" at John 8:58 (including the blatant unwarranted use of capitalization) is not only inaccurate but nonsensical.

Several translations phrase John 8:58 the correct way by which Jesus was actually illustrating how long he has existed. One, for instance:

"Jesus answered, "The truth is, I EXISTED BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS EVEN BORN!" (NLT)

Besides that, numerous TRINITARIAN authorities even have to admit that "I am" in Ex. 3:14 is not even correct and should be rendered more like "I will Be" (the MEANING OF God's name rather than God's personal name itself...Jehovah):

Encyclopedia Britannica:

"The writer of Exodus 3:14-15 ... explains it [the meaning of God's name] by the phrase EHYEH asher EHYEH (Ex. iii., 14); this can be translated `I am that I am' or more exactly `I am wont to be that which I am wont to be' or `I will be that which I will be.'" - p. 995, 14th ed., v. 12.

Playing a game of spot the glaring mistranslation, are we?

1. The NT is written in Greek. Jesus would have spoken Aramaic.

2. The above is a very biased rendering of a Greek translation of an Aramaic statement.

3. The use of the verb "to be" does not indicate divinity.

4. There are 2 senses of the verb "to be" in English. 1 of them is predicate, and the other is existential. Two different meanings. Compare: "I am hungry" and "I think, therefore I am."

5. Most of Jesus so-called "I am" statements contain the predicate use, not the existential use.

In the quote you have brought, this is actually the existential use.

6. In Semitic languages (Hebrew, Paleo-Hebrew, Chaldean, Aramaic, and Arabic, to name a few) there is no predicate use of the verb to be. The predicate is indicated by there being no verb in the sentence. Thus most of the so-called "I am" statements have no relation to the divine name at all.

But, as I said, the quote you've brought does actually use the EXISTENTIAL, which does exist in Semitic languages.

7. The use of a word as a name doesn't render the word meaningless.

For example: If one were to say: "There is a woman named Rose." True statement, surely. "Therefore, Rose is a woman's name. Therefore, if anyone uses the word "rose" in a sentence, they are refering to the woman Rose. The word has no meaning anymore, and cannot be used in common speech, because it is now a name." Will such a claim be accepted?

No, of course not. A rose is still a flower. The verb to exist still means to exist. Simply because somebody says, "I exist", "I have existed", or "I will exist", that doesn't make them God.

8. The divine name is derived from the verb forms "yiyeh", and "howeh"; which are conjugations of the same verb, in different tenses. The resulting name is not a real conjugation of the verb, but a specifically created name that will only be the name when thus conjugated.

So the claim that you are making is not equivalent to "rose" no longer being a word because of a woman named Rose, but rather, that "rose" is no longer a flower, because a woman is named "Roseline."

So, you must understand, that the use of the verb "to exist" in a Semitic language does not constitute godhood.

9. If a verb continues from the past, into the present and is in a present form in a foreign language, then there is only one correct rendering, linguistically. That will either be the present perfect continuous, or the present perfect, depending on the verb.

Existance is absolute, so cannot ever be continuous. Thus, the correct translation would be:

"Since before Abraham, I have existed." However, that sounds rather against idiomatic English, so we would swap the sentence order, rendering it: "I have existed since before Abraham."

10. What if Jesus wasn't using the verb, but rather the unique conjugation that is the divine name? "Before Abraham was, HaShem" There is absolutely no way HaShem could possibly be a personal reference, without adding a few words to the sentence. The translation of "Before Abraham, was HaShem" would be, "Before Abraham, was the LORD." Or, "The LORD was before Abraham."

Now that may require some explanation. Judaism is not itself a religion, but rather the branch of a religion. Jethro of Midian (the father-in-law of Moses) was the priest of the one God. He was obviously not Jewish.

In fact, many of the Semitic tribes worshipped the One God. The Jews have a unique covenant with God, but they are certainly not the only people who could worship God, or whose worship was valid.

If Jesus actually said, "Before Abraham, was HaShem" then he was answering the Pharisees who were claiming some kind of superiority for being descendants of Abraham; therefore he'd be implying that it was being a worshipper of the One God that was important, rather than simply being a Jew, and that someone's worship was not invalid simply because they weren't Jewish.

However, I think that interpretation is HIGHLY unlikely.

11. In conclusion: The use of the verb "to be" does not indicate godhood, otherwise everyone would be God, because of the use of a common, everyday verb.

The verb is still an actual word that is used in Semitic languages.

The two possible interpretations of the verse are:

"I have existed since before Abraham"

and "The Lord was before Abraham."

If he was using the verb "to exist", he was referring to some manner of spiritual existence prior to Abraham. Being spiritually ancient does not require or indicate divinity.

If he was using the divine name, then it cannot have been a personal reference.

12. Final thought:

Do you really believe that a person is God because he used a certain verb?

According to 1 Peter 1:20 - Jesus calling was before the foundation of the world.

Also, according to Eph 1:4 - Those who belong to the Body of Christ were called also before the foundation of the word.

If you belong to the Body of Christ, this does not make you a "GOD"., just because your calling was together with Jesus.

Abraham calling was later on when Yahweh called him in the burning bush. as in Exodus 3:4.

Those are the reason why the calling of Jesus and those who belong to the Body of Christ is before Abraham.

Read Genesis 3:15 - that was the promise of a seed from a virgin that will destroy the seeds of Lucifer. That promise was before the calling of Abraham. Of course, the calling or church of the Body was the greatest secret and no one knows it, not even Jesus himself.

This comment reads: " Before Abraham I proved to be", (Proverbs 8:22-31) “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.

The true God used I AM again with Moses when Moses asked what he should tell Pharaoh as to who sent him, The true God said I AM who I AM, thus God was saying he would become whatever it took to make the Pharaoh let his people go. The spiritually weak say God's name is I AM while others say his name is jealous because the true God said his name was jealous.

The Tetragrammaton [יהוה] = Yĕhovah, Jehovah in English is God's name as Isa 42:8 in the American Standard states: 8 I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images.

Also at Exodus 6:3 we read ) 3 and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty; but by my name Jehovah I was not known to them. (Again in the American Standard)

because prov 8,12 I wisdom(1cor1,24) dwell with prudence(benevolent God) then 22,the Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way,before his works of old (the seven wonders) when a person say God is Jesus and Jesus is God which one are they denying?And this is not what Jesus preach i don't know many times Jesus said My father who is in heaven.

RS reads: “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am [Greek, e‧go′ ei‧mi′].’” (NE, KJ, TEV, JB, NAB all read “I am,” some even using capital letters to convey the idea of a title. Thus they endeavor to connect the expression with Exodus 3:14, where, according to their rendering, God refers to himself by the title “I Am.”) However, in NW the latter part of John 8:58 reads: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” (The same idea is conveyed by the wording in AT, Mo, CBW, and SE.)

Which rendering agrees with the context? The question of the Jews (verse 57) to which Jesus was replying had to do with age, not identity. Jesus’ reply logically dealt with his age, the length of his existence. Interestingly, no effort is ever made to apply e‧go′ ei‧mi′ as a title to the holy spirit.

Says A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, by A. T. Robertson: “The verb [ei‧mi′] . . . Sometimes it does express existence as a predicate like any other verb, as in [e‧go′ ei‧mi′] (Jo. 8:58).”—Nashville, Tenn.; 1934, p. 394.

Are you saying God was the only one existing before Abraham .......and up to Jesus' day?

What about the millions of angels?

Or, are you getting hung up on the expression 'I am'?

'I am' is a title.

Obama is a president, so is Medevnev of Russia.

Are they the same person.

Titles are a weak argument.

That was specifically where Jesus did declare himself to be Jehovah, the Messiah, the Son of God. That is why the Pharisees were so put out about it. Such a declaration was blasphemous in their view. When Moses was instructed to tell the Israelites that I Am sent him, he was telling the Israelites that Jehovah sent him. So when Jesus made His declaration, He was saying that He was the one that sent Moses, one and the same.

Probably because in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and was with God. Jesus is the Word. Jesus is also God in human flesh.

The living word from Eternity (Jesus) has been here since the beginning. He came physically to this planet a little over 2000 yrs ago.