Is this bit gentle or harsh? I get mixed feed back from everyone!?

Firstly: Although that bit is advertised as a snaffle and in western, these types of bits are often classed as snaffles, they are NOT snaffles. A snaffle bit consists of a bit mouthpiece with a ring on either side and acts with direct pressure. The reins attach to the single ring and has no leverage or curb action. (this excludes a hanging cheek snaffle or fillet baucher which has a slight poll action but still works on direct pressure).

A snaffle is not necessarily a bit with a jointed bit mouthpiece, as is often thought. A bit is a snaffle because it creates direct pressure without leverage on the mouth. It is a bit without a shank. Therefore, a single- or double-jointed mouthpiece, though the most common designs for snaffle bits, does not make a bit a snaffle. Even a mullen mouth (a solid, slightly curved bar) or a bar bit is a snaffle.

The snaffle differs from the pelham bit, the curb bit, and the kimberwicke in that it is a non-leverage bit, and so does not amplify the pressure applied by the reins. With a snaffle, one ounce of pressure applied by the reins to a snaffle mouthpiece will apply one ounce of pressure on the mouth. With a curb, one ounce of pressure on the reins will apply more – sometimes far more – than one ounce of pressure on the horse's mouth.

The bit you have linked is NOT a snaffle, it is a curb bit. A curb bit works on several parts of a horse's head and mouth. The bit mouthpiece acts on the bars, tongue and roof of the mouth. The shanks add leverage and place pressure on the poll via the crown piece of the bridle, to the chin groove via the curb chain, and, especially with a "loose jaw" shank, may act on the sides of the mouth and jaw.

A curb bit is a leverage bit, meaning that it multiplies the pressure applied by the rider. Unlike a snaffle bit, which applies direct rein pressure from the rider's hand to the horse's mouth, the curb can amplify rein pressure several times over, depending on the length of the curb's bit shank. Shank sizes vary from the Tom Thumb (2 inches long) to more than 5 inches. The longer the bit shank, the more powerful its potential effect on the horse. For this reason, overall shank or cheek length, from the top of the cheek ring to the bottom of the rein ring, usually cannot exceed 8½ inches for most horse show disciplines.

Jointed mouthpieces increase the pressure on the bars due to the nutcracker action of the mouthpiece. In addition, the joint angle is altered by the shank leverage to tip the bit downward and into the tongue.

The mouth piece on it's own is known as sweet iron, and is neither harsh nor gentle, it is called sweet iron as it is claimed to be nicer for the horse in the sense that it doesn't have the normal metallic taste of stainless steel bits.

In short. Any bit that acts on more than one point on the horses mouth or bridle is a harsh bit. That added with the jointed mouth piece makes it even harsher, even though the shanks aren't particularly long it still has a leverage action. So yes, this bit is harsh.

EDIT: If you want something gentle then get a snaffle. A single loose ring snaffle with two joints and a lozange centre.

Double-jointed bits reduce the nutcracker effect because they conform better to the horse's "U" shaped mouth, instead of the "V" created by a single joint, which often hits into the roof of the horses mouth. In this respect they are milder, and many horses prefer a double-joint over a single joint.

I dont ride western often, so i wouldn't know from experience with this bit. But i can tell you, that any leverage bit will be severe. No matter who is using it. (unless you neck rein and dont actually use the bit) The type of bit you chose has a great mouth piece to it, since it has the double broken mouth piece on it that takes away the nut cracker effect. And the roller is great for horses who need to salivate more. the only down side to this bit is the leverage. since that will put pressure on the poll, and pull the bit around in the horses mouth. And unless your using a chin chain, it can actually lead to ripping the mouth apart.

Some of the gentlest bits are happy mouth snaffles, the double broken mouth ones are the best. Or your basic snaffle (but light hands are needed, because of the nutcracker effect) The harshest bits, are pretty much anything with leverage added to it. Mix leverage with heavy hands and you've basically got a torture device

I feel like it can be both on how you use it. Almost any bit can be harsh when used wrong. The rings on the outside are there to adjust the harshness of the bit I think the lowest loop is really harsh. I am not entirely sure because I do not use this bit or one like it. I can tell you that it is a generally a harsh bit. Anything with leverage is harsh. BIts are used to keep contact with the horse. Not to temporarily fix a problem. Bits do not fix problems; training does.

I think tom thumbs can be harsh when used wrong. I know a couple people who use one, but they don't abuse it. THe only reason they use it is because it fits their horse really well. THere are some people that use it with hard hands. Then, it is a really harsh bit. I believe that it depends on who uses it and what they use it for.

I feel like snaffles and happy mouths bit are gentle bits. I use a hinged snaffle on my gelding. I am not a big fan of these bits though. I prefer snaffles and happy mouths! I don't like the straight bar ones because they can break a horse's jaw if used with harsh hands. Hinged ones are better!

EDIT 2: If you're riding western, use that plain curb bit you have-- it's way better as long as you're neck reining, not yanking on those shanks. Heck, even if you ARE yanking on those shanks, a curb is better than this tomb thumb. If you're riding English, use an O ring or D ring snaffle. Buy one used at a tack sale or just pay for the basic Fleet Farm model-- it's not more than like $12.

EDIT: A tomb thumb looks like this: http://media.equisearch.com/wp-content/uploads/200...

It's basically any bit with swivelling shanks AND a broken mouthpiece. Your bit is a tomb thumb-- the only difference between yours and the one in the picture I posted is that yours has extra breaks in the mouthpiece and a roller. Here's a great article about why these bits are confusing and painful: http://www.todayshorse.com/Articles/TroublewithTom...

This bit is harsh. It's basically a tomb thumb bit, which is pretty universally hated.

You have to look at how it works.

This bit has shanks AND a broken mouth piece, and everything is jointed.

The shanks apply leverage pressure and are not solidly attached to the mouthpiece.

The broken mouth piece moves too.

Basically, you're applying the pressure of a western curb with the broken mouthpiece of the snaffle, plus sending a ton of moving pieces sliding around in the horse's mouth. It's confusing, and painful.

Any bit with a jointed mouthpiece that has shanks is both overly severe and cannot deliver correct, clear signal to the horse. So, it is a poor communication tool with potential to inflict considerable damage to tissue.

The bit you have is actually worse than the Tom Thumb design in that it also has a gag effect. The jointed mouthpiece is able to slide on the ring attaching it to the shanks. So, when the reins are engaged, and the shanks rotate backward as the purchases (upper lever arms) rotate forward, the bit mouthpiece slides back to pinch the lips and hit the teeth while also collapsing to pinch the tongue and bars in a vicelike grip while the jointed middle section is jammed into the tongue.

As a rule, the harshest bits in common use are gags and those that combine leverage arms with jointed mouths. The mouthpiece of a leverage bit is supposed to function as a stable fulcrum for the shanks and purchase to pivot on. The jointed mouthpiece creates a sloppy mess of that, with pinching and uneven, confusing signals all over the place. Gag bits also rank among the harshest bits out there, and this one has managed to incorporate some gag effect in addition to the already poor design. When twisted wire or slow twist cannons are added to the design, these bits become torture devices.

This bit allows nothing in the way of opportunity for the horse to learn to respond to clear signals through feather-light rein vibrations before leverage is engaged. That is what a well designed curb bit is intended to do. Jointed bits belone on snaffle rings, dees, or eggbutts that receive force coming through the reins directly in line with the corners of the mouth. Jointed mouthpieces cannot function correctly with leverage arms of any length.

Doesn't look very harsh at all. People are talking about how it using leverage pressure make it harsh, however that's not as true with western, because typically in western there is constant slack in the rein and very little direct mouth pressure is applied, it make it so they can feel the lighter pressure better.

As far as a harsh bit, typically the higher the port the harsher the bit. A high port with a spoon is the harshest bit I have ever come across they can look like this http://www.kotrading.com/268764-cathedralcorrectio...

Anything with the reins on the bottom of a long shanked bit is very harsh as it uses leverage.

Of course you need to take into account the shape of the horse's mouth and the thickness of his tongue to establish wether the mouthpiece is comfortable for a particular horse. And no bit is mild if the rider's hands and seat are not independent.

If it fits your horse and your horse is comfortable with it it be good. No I use the tom thumb bit. They're is not much of a difference. I had a horse that we bought every type of bit there was and the only one he liked was a tom thumb. I still use the tom thumb bit. The bit your using wasn't in stock at our local IFA store.

lemme tell you this: almost NO snaffle bits are harsh. they are in fact one of the easiest bits. the harshest...umm, i'm really not sure

edit: unless you are a rider that likes to yank on the reins, of course. then no bit is mild for you. this particular bit isn't supposed to be very harsh, however it depends on the horse, the shape of its mouth, etc.

yes