Does a universe exist if there are no conscious beings in it?

Hi Adam,

Short answer: Yes, within a multiverse, each individual universe exists whether or not there are conscious beings embedded within it.

Argument 1 – Our Universe

Consciousness is an emergent property of sophisticated algorithms executing on complex, highly interconnected, physical substrate networks – in our case, minds arising from living brains. Such biochemical networks require complex molecules built from complex atoms. Such atoms can only be synthesised by nuclear fusion processes in stars, all of which takes a lot of cosmological time. So until second generation solar systems had formed and had had sufficient time for conscious beings to evolve, our own universe lacked for conscious beings embedded within it. But it would be illogical to declare our universe as non-existent during the preceding, necessary, inorganic cosmic evolution from the Big Bang (through recombination, dark ages, first generation stars) to the first emergence of the first conscious beings.

Arguement 2 – Purpose of a Multiverse

Often one of the reasons to posit a multiverse is as an answer to our universe’s ‘fine-tuning’ problem – why certain universal fundamental physical constants lie within a very narrow range, such that if any of several fundamental constants were only slightly different the universe would be unlikely to be conducive to the establishment and development of matter, astronomical structures, elemental diversity, or life as it is presently understood. The purpose of the other universes is that they are the ones where those fundamental constants are NOT conducive to the evolutionary emergence of conscious beings. So those perpetually lifeless universes MUST exist without embedded conscious beings to serve their explanatory purpose.

I wonder if you are confusing the emphasis placed on the role of ‘the observer’ (a conscious being) in the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics in the decoherence of superposition states, with the necessity of embedded conscious beings for a universe to be considered to be in existence.

My most mind-expanding encounter with multiverse speculations came in the form of a book which I highly recommend:

• ‘The Hidden Reality: Parallel Universes and the Deep Laws of the Cosmos’, by Prof. Brian Greene, 2011

— “An in-depth yet marvelously accessible look inside the perplexing world of modern theoretical physics and cosmology . . . Greene presents a lucid, intriguing, and triumphantly understandable state-of-the-art look at the universe.” ~ review, ‘Publishers Weekly’

» about – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Reality:_P...

Hope that’s broadened your understanding, and given you a pointer for further exploration,

Share and Enjoy, Peace-&-Love, Dalinian – ★ ☮ ♥ ꂨ ♻

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PS: further to the PS of Ultraviolet Oasis (this webpage)... I think perhaps it’s necessary to raise the other age-old zen question:

• If a man is alone in a forest, and he has an opinion, is he still wrong?

This universe existed long before there were conscious beings in it.

I understand that it's very possible we weren't the first intelligent life in the universe, but there is a period of time in the beginning when intelligent life would not have existed (unless a religion is right. . . but I don't want to go there).

First, stars had to form. Then, stars had to die and explode so there could be more than just hydrogen and helium floating around. Then, the stuff that got thrown out by the explosion had to condense and eventually turn into a new star and some planets. All of this stuff takes time and the Universe existed before any of that stuff happened.

Very good question. Can a universe exist without beings in it that are aware of it; is this the question? If so, I would lean toward that possibility. What this proposal demands is a very thorough definition of consciousness. No doubt, any other answers that you have received on this question flail about because consciousness in this day and age is not as well-defined as something more simple... such as time dilation due to gravity. Its definition ranges over science and philosophy and other disciplines.

The study of the human mind, consciousness, the subconscious mind can easily fill one's life and still leave many questions unanswered.

Most difficult of all is the acceptance that the consciousness that we all experience is only that which the subconscious mind grants us; that man does not have conscious choice as popularly conceived. Yet, here we are... trying to understand that which is one of the most fantastic entities in existence: the subconscious mind.

We think we know things but when it comes to knowing ourselves... we are at the point where we think that the moon is a hole in the sky that lets in sunlight.

Keep up the good work; keep thinking; don't be complacent.

P.S. Before I end my answer, I think that it would be necessary to address the age-old question: If a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it, does it make any noise? The answer depends entirely upon the definition of 'noise'. There are two legitimate definitions: a disturbance of air waves AND a disturbance of air waves that contacts a hearing organ. Thus the answer is: it depends.

A qualified yes ... this answer assumes that observation is possible by something other than conscious mind. For example, a plant may not be conscious, but may measure (observe) the universe around it by it's very function (absorbing light to produce energy).

I read the 8 existing answers before posting. All hogwash.

Define the word "exist" (the meaning of the word)?

By (my) definition we may talk about "the" Universe. "A Universe" has no meaning.

Cogito ergo sum. I exist. I exist in a (perceived) environment. That environment has extent in time and space. I call that the Universe. If I didn't exist, I wouldn't call it that.

My (somewhat meaningless) splitting of hairs is that a thing would continue to be without conscious observers but not any (reductive) pieces. The whole would be, without form and as one.

The universe can exist without conscious beings within it but it cannot exist without a conscious being at all.

Of course.

Our Universe existed much before any conscious being.

Tough question. If life did not exist at all, then does the universe exist? Well, since we are alive to see the universe, then we do know that it exists. If we didn't exist, would it exist? The answer would be yes, since it does exist.

Sounds like the old tree falling in the forest theory. Totally ridiculous. Things don't stop existing because no one is observing them. If it were even possible there would be nothing in existence anywhere. Everything can't be observed all the time. It is pure fiction, like time travel and wormholes.

Thats pretty selfish. Thats kind of like the "tree falls and no ones around" question. Why should living things determine if something exists?