When is enough enough?

Hi Sparky,

I hear in your voice that you are most definitely at your "wits end". I'm not sure if your post here is asking for permission to give him back to the shelter, or are you looking for more ideas to work with your dog?

What I am missing in your description is when is your dog doing these behaviors? It sounds as if the dog is alone during these times. I have three Samoyeds ranging in age from 3.5 years down to a puppy. I have NEVER left any of my dogs alone without being crated. Even at 3.5 years, I am not ready to trust, nor do I believe they are actually in want of being left wide open. Crating a dog is the humane thing to do when you're gone, for it gives them safety within their "den". This destructive chewing may be signs of fear during separation anxiety.

As for the "roaming", again it sounds like the dog is left outside unattended. While with some dogs this is perfectly fine, with others like yours for example, it is a recipe for disaster. Some dog breeds just have it in them to want to escape. Almost like putting a fence up is only a challenge put in front of them.

You have come up with a great exercise for this energetic dog, the bikejourning. We have an apparatus thing that was added to my husband's bike that allows the dog to hook up to the bike and safely run along side it. One brand is called The Springer. I believe we paid $50.00 for ours. The point of the exercise is to give the dog an outlet for all that pent up energy.

I would start with crate training. It will take a bit of work to get the dog use to the idea of being crated if he is not use ot it. Here is a site that goes into tricks to introduce the crate to the older dog.

http://www.pet-supplies-review.com/older-dog-train...

When I have to be gone for a longer period, I have hollowed out bones that I fill with peanut butter and kibble and freeze it. This is a treat I only offer the dogs when they will be crated for a longer period, and they actually get excited about the chance to have such a treat. This tuckers them out, and they nap until I get home. Cream cheese is another filler that works.

I suppose your Petsmart classes offered the very basics of dog training, but they are not expertise enough to really give you the more advanced ideas necessary for a dog of your caliber. If you are sold into it, you could train your dog yourself. There are great books out there on dog training and awesome sites right here on the internet.

Dog Breed Info offers some great ideas with separation anxiety too, and the article offers other sites to go to regarding alpha training, etc. Start here with the separation anxiety ideas and then move on to the other articles:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/separationanxiety.htm

You have put this much effort into your dog so far, you obviously are not an easy quitter. I've offered you some good ideas to continue with your training of your boy. I am not going to gloss it over and say it will be a breeze. Remember you will have to stop bad behaviors AND train the new ones. You will have to come up with a game plan, and stay focused being consistent. Who ever is with the dog should be trained in the exact methods you come up with. Everyone needs to be on the same page.

But the fact is this is up to you, Sparky, you have to be in this completely or perhaps you do have to give up. It would be ashame for you have put so much time and effort in so far, but only you know if you have it still in you to try. We are here at Yahoo Answers for more questions as you start your training with him. There are some very knowledgeable people on here who will be glad to offer you more help.

Good luck and good training,

My 2 cents

Rose

Don't be so hard on yourself. You must have done some things right, since your dog is good with people and other pets. Yes, you got in over your head, but don't give up on him just yet. Not many people are going to put up with a destructive dog, and you love him so you are his best chance to get past that. Hire the professional trainer now, so hopefully you will be well on the road to success before the dog can destroy your new home. Also, spend a couple of hours googling for ideas (I'm sure you know you can't believe everything you read on google, so use your own common sense about what to believe). Knowledge is power.

Some dogs just love chewing. The trick is to try to divert this behavior to chew toys, etc. that he *can* have. I recently lost a 14 year old boy whose life mission was to chew. He wore down all his teeth to nubs. We went through a LOT of chewies and toys, but he seldom destroyed anything important, though he did go through a couple of couches when he was younger.

I like the idea of biking him, assuming he is good on leash and won't just pull you every which way. Try biking on safe paths at first to see what happens. You can buy a spring that attaches to your bike and holds the dog at a safe distance; however, when I've biked my dogs I prefer to hold onto the leash, so I could let go if an emergency every happened. Even a little dog can pull you into traffic.

As for escaping, at your new place you build him a proper run. Have it go into the ground far enough he can't dig out, and either have a top on it or at least a strong "baffle" so he can't climb or jump out. That same dog I just mentioned was also an escape artist. Just a little guy (under 30 lbs.), he was able to leap my 6 foot fence with ease, from a standing start no less. And he could dig holes like a prairie dog... So yeah, I did the "baffle" with stucco wire around the top and the bottom of the fence, and put a padlock on the gate so no one could accidentally let him out. That stopped his career as Houdini. You can buy security grills for windows (not only will keep him in, but will keep burglars out). Where there is a will, there is a way. I wouldn't bother doing that with the current home since you're moving in a month, but have the new one fixed up before you get there.

"If I give him up, should I even consider another dog, or just accept that I'm not meant to be a dog owner?"

I think you've shown a lot of dedication. If after the pro trainer you still cannot manage the dog, then do try again with an easier breed. Good luck.

EDIT:

Do NOT let him carry a backpack. All 3 possible breeds you mentioned that might be in him, suffer from hip dysplasia. And while he might be fine, you don't want to put any more stress on those hips than his own weight.

You have gotten some good advice on here but I think you need to take a look at what your training methods really are or were from day one. You have stated you have never trained a dog before and now you have one that came with issues and mixes that you really have no idea what they are. Yes you need to hire a trainer. Do not go to a class. You need to bring one into your home. A trainer will train you to train this dog. In order to train a dog you have to be very clear and precise of what you want him to do. You have to keep a dog in training on a very strict schedule and say the same words over and over until they understand what you want. I could bet the reason why this dog is chewing and being destructive is because he is confused on what your rules really are. You do need to get a crate and one of the other comments said to start in the new home. I AGREE if that new home is coming in the next week. If not do it now. Sit down and write a schedule. Skip the one hour walk. You need to go out in the AM and take a 30 minute walk and again in the PM. Again, pick a time that you know you will be able to do everyday. He is to eat at the same time everyday. He goes into the crate the same time everyday. You have to unconfuse your dog. If it is you and your husband training make sure your commands are the same exact words. DO NOT make a sentence when you are training. For example if you catch him chewing you would say "NO" not "this is bad I told you No". If he is confused not understanding what you expect of him you can exercise him until dooms day and it will not change a damn thing.

If you decide to bring him back and you give up I would say no don't get another one. The problem is you do not know how to train. I am sorry I do not mean that to be mean or berate you. If you get another you will have the same issues. While training remember dogs only understand very black and white. There is no in between the lines for them.

As far as outside do not give him freedom to be out there by himself. Again, he is making up the rules by getting out and you chase. Chase is a favorite game for dogs. They love it. For him he leaves to get the game started. For you it is aggravation. I think if you would call a trainer to help you will find in the end you will a best friend and that is the purpose of owning a dog.

Sometimes people adopt a dog in good faith, only to find out that the dog is not a good match for them. I've worked in a shelter, so I've seen this happen, and I've seen dogs returned to the shelter because of it. You will need the help of an experienced dog trainer to help you overcome your dog's behavior problems, so you need to look realistically at how much time, and desire, you have to work with this dog. There is no shame in admitting the dog has more problems than you want to tackle. It may well be that the dog ended up in the shelter because he was an escape artist, and a destructive chewer. These are behavior problems, not lack of exercise problems, so no matter how much exercise you give him it won't wear him out enough to stop chewing, or deciding to go roaming the neighborhood.

If you decide this is not the dog for you, it doesn't mean you have failed as a dog owner, or that you're not meant to be a dog owner. It just means that you haven't found the right dog for you. It's not much fun to have a dog as a companion when you're at your wit's end trying to deal with undesirable behaviors. If you decide you want to keep this dog, then I would get professional help now. Your dog will have the same behaviors after you move, so I'd get a head start on them right away. I could be wrong, but I think you already know this isn't the dog for you, and I think you are tired of trying to deal with his behavior problems. Realistically, it would probably be better to give this dog up, and after you move, you can search for a dog that is a better fit for you. If you decide to give the dog up, please don't feel guilty about it.

For high active dogs you should be looking at a minimum of 2 hours of exercise a day. Usually regular leashed walks will not do the trick, so think walks, off-leash play, search games, training, and brain games (problem solving). I have a high active dog breed, and like your dog, my dog is not tired after a leashed walk and that's regardless of whether the walk was 1 hour or 4 hours.

If he's only destructive while home alone, then look up home alone training, and try to see if you can find the time an opportunity to train him with the method where you leave the dog a gazillion times a day and then gradually increase the time you are gone. Remove everything he can destroy from where you keep him.

Clip him on a long leash when you are outside a fenced area and train recall, again, and again, and again at gradually increasing distraction levels. NEVER give him the oppotunity to run off, as this is self-rewarding behaviour. NEVER chase him after calling him (that's why you have the long leash), many dogs think being chased by their owner is a brilliant game.

I do not feel you have failed because you are recognizing that things you have done are not working, and you aren't just tossing him back to the shelter. I don't think you aren't meant to be a dog owner or that if you give him up that you should not consider another dog in the future (but maybe selecting more wisely in the future).

The choice is ultimately up to you, do you want to invest more time & money in helping him or are you in over your head and can't make that committment?

As a dog-lover & rescuer, I would put in the time & money. BUT I would also be open to the possibility that my home might not be the right home for this dog.

I do not know the situation, but is it boredom? separation anxiety? or something else? that is causing the destruction & escaping. Depending upon the root cause, you may not be the right home.

There are many great dogs @ the shelter I volunteered at -- but some had separation issues, and as a working person (although I do come home at lunch) I would not be the right home for that dog with that issue. My dogs do have some issues, but they are ones I can work with while giving them a good life.

My first ridgeback is nearly 5 months old now, and he's a hoot! But let me tell you I have never encountered such a headstrong pup, and I've raised quite a few. Very quick learner, very quick, but quite stubborn. He pouts and sulks if your corrections are too harsh. Food-motivated, totally. He needs firm, consistent, training and a lot of correction. He actually responds better to softly spoken, even whispered, commands than a harsh voice. Hand signals, even better. You can never, ever allow an exception. Never give a command unless you're 100% sure you can enforce it.

Funny thing is, he's generally lazy, apart from a couple times a day when he gets that "puppy hyperactivity", but I have a terrier here who can run him ragged when that happens.

At 5 months, he now has the run of 4 rooms, but not the whole house just yet, and yes he will pick up stuff. Some of it (my shoes for example) he carries around and never leaves a tooth-mark on it, other stuff he destroys. Especially paper. He brings sticks in from the yard (doggy door). A really fun guy to have around though. A party looking for a place to happen.

We're working on "leave it," and not picking up stuff not expressly given to him. Having a hard time getting him to comply, but we'll get there.

If that skill wasn't taught him as a pup then heaven help you. I would hate to try it with a 2-yr-old, but if I had to I'd use Cesar Millan's method. I don't care what anybody says, that stuff works.

My experience tells me that your predecessor failed. I bet you can still make a go of it. Based on experience with other large breeds, I'd expect him to mellow out as he ages. But if you should decide to give him up, don't give up on dogs altogether. Try something smaller, or older, or raise your dog from a puppy if you feel like tackling house breaking. Then at least you know what you got.

I don't think you have failed as a dog owner because you are asking for help and information and at least trying.

First thing I would suggest is a crate.I think I answered you before because you story sounds familiar. I would go on ebay and get one.They are not as expensive as you think and most have free shipping.For your sized dog it would probably be 50 bucks.Look for Midwest under dog crates.

When you move start a whole new program by using the crate.It would be a perfect time so he understands new place-new rules.

When you are home and busy you need to crate him even if you are in the same room.That will curb his ability to chew up and ruin things.Go to the butcher and buy him a long bone that he can chew on.I suggest using a spoon and taking out a lot of the marrow from each end because it can be too rich for him and cause stomach issues.My dogs keep theirs for a month of so before I replace them. Try to NOT use the crate as a punishment room.Feed him in his crate and give him his bone in it so he feels like it is a good place. When you are not busy and can watch for chewing and destruction then let him out.I would have a water bottle ready at all times and when he starts to do something "bad" say NO like you mean it and if he continues give him a squirt in the face.You must be constituent.All I have to do with my bad boy is show him the bottle and he stops his bad behaviour.

This is a dog that obviously needs a lot of exercise each day so you need to figure out how to do that for him.It sounds like he needs to run off that energy and a simple walk isn't going to work for him. Can you find a dog park to let him run loose and play ball or frisbee with him?

I hope the place you are moving to has a fenced in yard.You will need to walk every inch of it and look for escape routes.

Don't give up on him just try working with him until he understands that YOU are the master of his universe.I currently have a wild child that I loved but didn't like until he hit 5 years old.He would steal remote controls and phones and anything he could get a hold of and chew it.Large dog so trying to keep things up and away was hard for me because I still had to be able to reach his favorite chew toys too. I finally worked it out with him and he is the sweetest ever.Still a rascal but only with the things I give him .

Good luck to you

These really seem to be easy fixes. If you're not directly supervising him, he's crated. No opportunity to chew or escape, and you can easily correct him when he tries. Prevention is really the key here. In addition to walking, you should be having some play sessions with him daily. Boredom isn't strictly a matter of not getting enough exercise, some dogs need mental stimulation too, so busy toys like Kongs work well to keep him occupied while he's crated. Obedience training is definitely going to help, but all of this requires time and dedication on your part. If you don't feel that you are able to commit to it, then return him. Wait until you've moved to even consider getting another dog, and this time choose carefully. Private rescues are often better resources since most dogs are living with fosters, and they have already identified any behavioral issues with individual dogs that you may find to be a poor fit for your lifestyle

Have you considered crate training him? If he's constantly destroyign things, escaping from your yard, ect, the crate sounds like the way to go. That way, when you're not home, there's nothing he can destroy. Sounds like an anxiety issue, and yes, he needs much more exercise to help calm him down. Do several walks during the day. Go on a hike. Take him swimming. If he will follow safely while you're on a bike, do that. Lots of different activities to keep him from getting bored. Also, provide lots of chew toys and balls and the like. Teach him that those are okay to play with, but discipline him when he chews something he shouldn't.

If you just can't handle him anymore, it's not fair for him either. Ultimately it's your decision - we on the internet cannot help you. We say good luck!

Well, you sound like he is trouble. I had a female Labrador named Lilo and she was a destructive Queen. We bought her when she was 10 months old. Well, she chewed on everything under the sun, I can't tell you how much money I spent on shoes and lawn chairs, she even stole the LOGS out of the fire pit as well at the paper! After trying to teach her the nice way, I decided to get her a muzzle.

Once she started chewing on something she wasn't supposed to, I put it on, and when she calmed down, I took it off. It worked wonders! She too enjoyed running away, she was a curious and adventurous little lady, so everytime she did, I caught her and put her in a crate for either all night, or a few hours, but when I let her out, I kept her on a leash.

Your dog seems smart, he'll catch on, whether you take him back or continue to try, it will be a good decision.