Exactly why aren't we considered martial artists too?

I don't understand why MMA practitioners have no clue what the traditional/classical styles are even about! There is no changing the fact combat sports are sports. Denying that is blatantly denying fact. I have no real disrespect to those who practice a combat sport, until one claims what I do is not for real life and his sport is better for reality.

Just because combat sports are fought in full contact does NOT make them more tried by fire than the traditional styles. What you see in the traditional styles is beginner's learning basic technique. What most people don't see are those that graduate from the basics in training.

Any traditional style can instantly turn into a combat sport by using sparring as a means of competition. The real difference between MMA and TMA, is what comes after the fact. TMAs are not competition aimed and it was all for training. MMA has competition it's primary goal. I'm not insinuating anything good or bad. These are facts.

The UFC is completely ignorant to what the traditional style are. There is this new commercial where they show all these traditional styles sparring in a line, one to the next, up to where they show MMA, and then claim "the sport has evolved". It is these hidden challenges that makes me never respect MMA. Shaolin Gongfu is not a sport. Okinawan Karate is not a sport. If they can't see this and are on the constant attack on the traditional styles, until they observe the truth that MMA is a sport and the traditional style are not, then I simply will never respect the sport. I have no real grudges against MMA, but if they're going to be that ignorant, then I'm simply not going to respect it.

You claim you're discipline is martial arts. You're in a combat sport. Martial arts (whushu/budo) mean to stop violence, not compete. Even the english idea of "art of war" also conflicts as MMA and other combat sports (including point sparring and all others) don't train past competition. Again, these are facts. You can call yourself a martial artist if you want, but you are still a student of sport version styles.

The only thing I dislike about UFC is the abundance of BJJ which I just personally dislike and personally don't accept as anything besides a form of sport fighting. But that's just me.

The big problem that many of us traditional martial artists have with these mixed martial art institutions is that it teaches you how to drag on a fight versus ending a fight quickly and effeciently. Sport forms are becoming the norm and techniques such as small joint manipulation is being ignored simply because it's not allowed in sport.

For others it's so called 'traditional martial artists' who grew up on kung fu movies and expect the competitions to be super flashy with jumps and 10212930 kicks everywhere. In other words the TMA version of a UFCtard.

The common perspective though is "(omfg, why the hell is this guy talking about MMA.. Muay Thai? Did he just do a poor imitation of a Sok Ngad? OMFG, why the hell is he trying to punk me out now? =.=)" <-- Unfortunantly based on some real personal experience.

Let's just settle for UFCtards and TMAtards both being annoying and call it a day. MMA is just another form of martial arts. Sport is an application.

Martial arts were originally designed to kill, plain and simple. The majority of traditional martial arts also involve the spiritual side, as opposed to just learning how to fight.

Respect is one skill that many MMA practitioners lack (I know this from personal experience). However, most are well-rounded in discipline, but there still are quite a few who slack off. Its rare to meet a MMA fighter that learns life skills, such as focus, integrity, and persistence.

That, in my opinion, is what separates the majority of traditionalists and fighters,

Rules also play a big part, since like I said, martial arts are techniques made to kill. Many traditionalists see these competitions as water-downed martial arts made for entertainment and proving who is best.

Of course, organizations like UFC have to implement so many rules for safety precautions, but intentional or not it still doesn't fit the definition of true martial arts.

I guess it comes down to the roots of martial arts. Taking true, lethal combat systems and making it into a sport upsets most traditionalists.

So is it the fact that people are using martial arts to compete in large competitions? Probably not. I doubt anyone cared about this when there were death matches with absolutely no rules.

That narrows the possibilities into the mental attitude of the fighters and the rules they fight by. A typical MMA fighter is cocky, thinking his 'martial arts' are better than everyone elses because he proves it in competitions, and has little to no respect for traditional martial artists.

Now is this being stereotypical? Yes. I've met some damn respectful MMA fighters, however they usually trained in the traditional side of martial arts too.

Same thing goes for traditionalists. They can be cocky, disrespectful, and dumb at times. However, I've never met a practitioner like this that trained under a TRUE master. McDojo's are fueling this argument.

Studying a traditional style doesn't make you a martial artist. It doesn't matter what you do, if you train for the sole purpose of combat (sport or self defense), you are a fighter, not a martial artist. Much in the same way painting a picture doesn't make you a painter, doing a kata doesn't make you a martial artist. There is an important philosophical aspect to it. You become a martial artist when you train because you can't imagine not training. You become a martial artist when your training becomes a part of everything. It has nothing to do with being a weapon. It has nothing to do with what you do on the mat. It's a state of being that sticks with you.

I disagree with those who say MMA isn't a martial art. Boxing is a martial art, too. They don't fit the more traditional definition of an art that also requires discipline, etiquette, and humility, which is what cheeses off a lot of TMA students. I think many combat sports would be much better for their practitioners if they had more focus on personal development. Of course, as an expert on human potential, I believe this is true of college football, too. Most combat sports (as with most college sports) focus on only one aspect of the person, missing a huge opportunity to prepare the individual for success in family, business, and all other areas of life.

Who is actually the greatest martial artist of all time ???!!!! Everyone has different opinion. For people who think Bruce Lee is not the greatest martial artist. Then who you think is the greatest. I do not see an answer. I think to get the best answer we should ask opinion from the well known martial artist such as Roy Gracie, Gene Lebell, etc.... You can read the new book with the title " Bruce Lee conversation " which show opinions from many people. I heard that Bruce Lee is a favourite of who is actually the greatest of martial artist

I have found through my over forty years of involvement with martial, fighting, and combat arts that sometimes someone's reason for persuing these various aspects changes and they then embark on another journey to study something new or different from before. That is one of the things that has taken me to these different aspects and learning, studying and experiencing them. Others don't and they tend to stay within one aspect; never venturing outside of it and are largely satisifed with just that one aspect.

Some of them I think can't then look beyond that aspect or find it difficult to look outside of it and accept or recognize that there is something else out there that has or holds value for others. When they see somone else doing something at a high level they can't appreciate the skill, knowledge, training, and ability that goes into that because it is outside that which they identify with.

When I see a well trained, skilled fighter fight or an individual that does TMA do a kata with excellent technique, speed, and power, or an individual in jujitsu or BJJ roll at a high level, going from one technique to another cleanly and easily, I see an individual who has worked and trained long and hard. By doing that along with good coaching they have attained a high level of skill and ability in that aspect and I can appreciate that without getting caught up in the whole idea of if it is the same as what I gravitate towards or am interested in at that point in time.

I guess for some others though they can't look at and appreciate others and their skill, knowledge, and ability just for that, especially if it is outside their own area of interest.

I havo no disrespect to anyone and i enjoy watching UFC. But its whats the arts you practice in. They are sport martial arts and then self defense martial arts, which is what they were made for.

look at this page

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=do+mma+figh...

all of those are sports except maybe a few arts. So mma fighters train in sports based off of other martial arts as they adapt to each other to some bit. Thats why I don't consider MMA fighters martial artist because they either don't do any martial arts or they do the sports ones which almost completely don't even count any more as a art since it is a sport. Yes martial arts can have sparring and tournaments but some arts were made for sport.

for example muay thai was created as a sport from muay boran.

I have no disrespect but thats why I do not consider most MMA fighters martial artist, unless if they of course practice in a real martial arts like Kenpo, Karate, jujutsu,etc.

"Everywhere in this section it seems " traditional "martial artists harbor a huge amount of resentment toward us martial artists that compete in combat sport, why is this ?"

why is it you consider all tma, im part of that group and i dont.

i may not like the sports aspect of martial arts, but that don't mean i dont respect the people that do it, and i know i have said that several times as well.

so dont jump to the conclusion that is everyone

Edit: btw mma is a training meathod not , just like cross training is a training meathod.

Martial arts is far more then just training a bunch of styles.

People talk negatively about things that they have never done. It's just prejudice. Nothing new under the sun.

If you haven't done any TMA, Chinese or Japanese or whatever, then you don't know what it is or could be. Speculations is not knowledge.

Vice a versa, people who haven't done UFC, MMA, boxing, etc, don't know that stuff either, and are only speaking from a speculative basis.

Speculation and rumor mongering inevitably ends up distorted like a telephone grapevine game. And it gets really negative and stupid as a result.