DS: Why does it seem low-grain/ holistic dog food is more effected by "food recalls" ?

Holistic/grain free/Natural etc... are all marketing terms. They give no indication of the quality control practiced by the company, the quality of ingredients, who is formulating the diets, the research going into the products etc......

If you want to find a good company, ask these questions:

1. Do you have a Veterinary Nutritionist or some equivalent on staff in your company? Are they available for consultation or questions?

2. Who formulates your diets and what are their credentials?

3. Which of your diet(s) is AAFCO Feed Trial tested? Which of your diets meet AAFCO Nutritional requirements?

4. What Testing do you do beyond AAFCO trials?

5. What specific quality control measures do you use to assure the consistency and quality of your product line? What safety measures do you use?

6. Where are your diets produced and manufactured? Can this plant be visited?

7. Can you provide a complete product nutrient analysis of your bestselling canine and feline pet food including digestibility values?

8. Can you give me the caloric value per can or cup of your diets?

Once you find a company that gives you satisfactory answers, look at the products they have and decide if they suit your pets' needs.

The ingredient panel is worthless in determining the quality of a diet, what matters is the nutrients those ingredients provide, the digestibility of the formula, and the quality control practiced by the company.

It's not. We just perceive it to be. Blue, Chicken Soup, Diamond...all are high grain foods. They just have good commercials and an Internet cult following to make them popular.

Since they are popular, they take more extreme cautions. Taste of the Wild, Canidae, Solid Gold, Wellness, and Natural Balance never tested positive for any salmonella. They were simply made in the same factory as a few bags of Diamond that were. Their recall was voluntary and precautionary. I would rather have that than feed Purina, who will only recall food that is actually contaminated. It's too expensive for Iams/Purina/Pedigree to take unnecessary precautions.

Avoid the whole issue and only feed brands that actually own the factories their food is made in and disclose openly where they buy raw ingredients. Or work with a holistic vet to make your own food.

Purely some speculating on my part, but I think it's a bit of what G'Hound said regarding holistic foods being manufactured with more fresh, high quality meats and vegetables thus making freshness a real and potential hazard, but also the fact that people are more in tune to those things that directly affect them.

For instance, I don't feed Diamond foods or Blue Buffalo (used to but it didn't agree with one of my dogs), and I didn't realize there was a recall until it was well underway. However, when Canidae changed it's formula and dogs started becoming ill and even dying - I heard about it from the very beginning (I was feeding Canidae at that time, but don't any longer). I think subconsciously, our brain tunes into things that directly affect us, but perhaps turns off a bit when they don't. Sort of a natural clearing house in the brain.

I will take no offense if anyone T/D's me on this, since I am only speculating and really have no basis of fact for what I'm saying..........just IMHO and personal observations.

ADD: Good question though and I starred you so maybe there will be some others with more knowledge taking a stab at this.

I am unfamiliar with a Blue Buffalo recall that involved salmonella? Could you provide a link please?

As far as recalls on natural foods, it is because they are natural. Lab created synthetic proteins and supplement are not at risk for any kind of issues like this. Natural ingredients are always at risk.

Our human food is recalled all the time for salmonella. I guess I just don't understand why everyone gets their panties Ina bunch when the same thing happens to pet foods.

ETA-thanks Chix. I knew there was no salmonella recall for Blue, so I always ask when people post this stuff. If anyone wanted, they could sign up for automatic alerts from the FDA. That way they would know the serious recalls right away.

I happen to think that the recall of 2007 taught pet food companies to be much more careful with their products. Sure, everyone makes mistakes, just look at our human drug recalls, for heavens sake!, but the bottom line is no pet food company would stay in business long if they killed animals with their products. People tend to forget that logic when the "mob" comes out.

@Chix-absolutely it is the media. I have a really hard time believing that pet food was better 50 years ago. 50 years ago no one took their dog to a vet. Who knows what they died of? The old tried and true dog foods are using the same ingredients they used a long time ago. Maybe dogs as a species have built up an immunity to what's in them LOL.

My vet explains this very well-

Lab created foods have absolute control over the portions of protein and all supplements. They can be exact because they are creating a product that is exact.

Natural foods are using natural ingredients. Those ingredients can vary in protein content, vitamin benefit, etc. Then they change when they are cooked, so exact control over what is left is lost as well. This is the main reason some dogs don't do well on natural diets, their digestive systems can't handle the ever changing ingredients.

When Blue Buffalo announced their recall for the Vitamin D issue, it was because they cold form their vitamins, which makes them tons more potent. They had one plant worker who pressed the wrong button, and excess Vitamin D was put in one batch of the food.

Most dog food companies cook the vitamins right out of the food with high pressure and heat processing. That is why Blue adds Vitamin D, among others.

And then there is Wellness, who advertises human grade ingredients.

I am not going to go crazy over what I feed my dogs. If I did, I wouldn't have time for anything else, with seven to feed. My dogs are healthy, have no digestive issues, and check out at the vet with great weight, muscle mass, and teeth.

So some commercial dog foods really aren't that bad if I can get these kinds of results with them.

It is just you. "Holistic" "Grain free" dog foods aren't recalled more often then "commercial" brands.

But lets clear some things up.

The Diamond Brand manufacturing plant had a salmonella problem.

alot of other brands, that are not associated with Diamond Brands, use their plant too.

That's why, in this instance, alot of higher quality dog foods were potentially impacted - because the point of failure was the plant they all use.

The brands that use the plant don't neccesarily have tainted food, but alot of them did a preventative voluntary recall regardless.

Blue Buffalo was not impacted. Their salmonella recall was in 2010.

"Holistic" is a marketing term with very little meaning. Can anyone explain what specifically makes "holistic" food better?

ADD: good point by anne b about people overreacting to dog food salmonella recalls. Did you know that if your dog food has salmonella - the real risk is not your dog eating it, but you handling it? Dogs are practically impervious to salmonella.

Starred. I would love to see the answers you get.

My only guess is that since the other foods are so high in grains they are less likely to have a problem with salmonella? Not a very accurate guess as I know several low-quality foods that have had recalls as well. It's also possible that they're just not as honest with their recalls - take those treats that have been harming dogs for years but the company refuses to shelve them because the FDA "can't find the source" or something like that.

Again, would love to see the answers.

I don't necessarily think it is. Keep in mind with animal foods that don't have the strict regulations of human foods, a lot of recalls are VOLUNTARY, company based. More recalls may seem to be done by higher quality dog foods, but when you figure a lot of those plants are manufacturers are used by MULTIPLE brands of food, that makes you wonder about the honesty and integrity of other dog foods.

As far as I know, this recent recall of Diamond is due to humans getting salmonella poisoning from direct contact with the dog food, and then not using proper sanitation methods after. It actually made me laugh, because just two days ago I had one of the vets at the practice I work at blow up on me when I told her I fed my dogs raw!

She asked if I soaked myself in bleach before coming in, and basically accused me of putting every animal and human in the practice at risk for salmonella poisoning. She brought up studies that showed high levels of salmonella in racing greyhound kennels where raw food was fed, and that dogs were NOT meant to eat raw meat. I pointed out my house was probably a LOT cleaner then a racing greyhound kennel, salmonella is found in fecal matter and I know for a FACT that greyhounds are prone to diarrhea and tend to be extremely messy in kennel environments and I would contribute a lot of that to increased levels of salmonella, and she may not think dogs are designed to eat raw meat but they certainly aren't designed to eat cooked corn!

The more natural or hard to get the ingredients are the greater the potential problems of storage.

With Sweet Potato, used instead of grain as a filler, any mold can be deadly and the problem is you can't easily tell there is mold on the skin or just under.

Also the slower the turnover of the dog food the more chances it has of going off.

I googled and came up with this list from FDA for Blue Buffalo recalls:

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/newpetfoodre...

It includes two Class 1 recalls in 2011 for Salmon and Potato (dry) and for Chicken and Rice (dry).

As I recall from an earlier post, the product by Diamond had mould - I cannot recall the composition or ingredient list.

I personally am not convinced the recalls are more or less - only that the number of pet food suppliers are much more diverse than say 20 years ago when Premium brands like Iams Science Diet, and Technical became prolific.

As others have stated, many buy their raw materials from the same sources - but manufacturers would process and package in their own plants.

The melamine recall was a product manufactured in China -which was sold to a central Pet food processing plant in Ontario - this plant manufactured pet food for many suppliers under various private labels. So the problem was one raw material was procured by one processor made in huge quantities in one plant in different formulations private labelled and sold as many brands.

When only one Pet food manufacturer is implicated (like Blue Buffalo) - but various formulations (salmon, chicken, rice, potato) if it were a raw material, it would have to be common to both formulations. Fat for example.

The other possibility is the raw materials were received fine, but the processing done in the plant and or storage of those materials once received was poor - mould grew in storage or the cooking process did not properly neutralize pathogens. Pet food must be cooked at very high tempertures to kill pathogens and I suppose at any part in the rendering process something could fail.

I`m not sure `holistic`means anything - but if by that you mean pet food preserved with tocopherals rather than chemicals then yes, I think its possible to have a higher risk. I also wonder about the standards and quality control of these more recent brands - the industry is poorly regulated.

But all of this is my speculation on what went wrong - I doubt we will ever find out.

***************

Add: Just googled - I note the above noted recalls for Blue Buffalo were related to Vitamin D and it appears to be part of the rendering (ie processing) which resulted in higher levels of Vitamin D in the product formulations than considered safe.

http://bluebuffalo.com/news/vitamin-d-voluntary-re...

Symptoms of affected dogs:

Typical symptoms might include excessive water intake and/or excessive urination, and in some cases vomiting. Blue Buffalo will reimburse any veterinary or testing expenses related to illness caused by these products.

My understanding of preservatives (tocopherals) is that E is used in `holistic` foods - ie foods naturally preserved vs foods using BHA, or Ethoxyquin or BHT.

http://www.acgrace.com/unique-e-mixed-tocopherols/

*********************************

Another link to another Vitamin D Pet food recall: I don`t know what product this is but it is in Spain -

http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/02/29/...

************************

Last add: Based on this, Vitamin D can only be found naturally in animal products.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=vitam...

The fact it is being added artificially to these dog foods tells me they are off-setting the poor quality protein naturally found in the dog food with increased levels of Vitamin D.

In other words, with less grain, the food has to have high protein. This would be more expensive to produce - so to get around that they have artificially boosted the Vitamin D levels to `make the food ``appear`` to be high in animal protein.

Once again, I`m left with the same conclusion. Commercial Dog food is shyte. Why do people buy this crap. I`m glad I have my raw food - at least I know there are no additives, and the product I buy is made right in Ontario by a local producer.

Think Globally, buy locally. :-)

**************

@AnneB: I am not sure you can compare human food and drugs to pet food. Primarily because pet food is often the ONLY consumable item a dog has which means he/she ingests 100% of that product every day - vs say a brick of cheese which may have been contaminated with Listeria which actually happened a few years ago here in Ontario with Maple Leaf Foods.

The other fact is standards for Pet food are no where near as high or regulated as human food. Drugs are another topic.

I will agree that maybe what people react to is the media - 20 years ago we didn't have internet.

Give it chocalate i hate dogs to death when i see a dead dog on the floor i tthink to my self this is going to be a good day. when i see a dog walking past me i kick it and run away