Atheists and Christians, humor me for a moment. Can we pretend homosexuality is a choice?

You're inferring something that isn't actually implied by homosexual rights advocates.

Homosexuality not being a choice isn't what makes it acceptable. Homosexuality not causing any harm is what makes it acceptable. Homosexuality not being a choice what makes the anti-homosexual agenda so atrocious and ridiculous.

"Neither side seems willing to concede no matter what evidence is presented."

Bull ****. Don't presume to tell me what I think.

"If this was NOT a position held by the pro-gay movement AT LARGE, then the Choice vs. Born That Way debate would not even exist."

Double bull ****. And I've already explained why. You need to remove your own head from your own ***. The LGBT rights movement includes rights for bisexuals. And it turns out they can choose to persue relationships with one gender or the other. It is not just my personal position, it's the position from the LGBT rights movement "AT LARGE". You show your own hand, calling it pro-gay. The whole "is it a choice" debate exists because bigots insist it's a choice and base their discrimination on that fallacy.

"and generalizations exist because generalizations are generally true."

That's just something bigots tell themselves in order to excuse their ignorant bigotry.

I agree. If homosexuality were a choice, it would be a perfectly valid one. The reason we get so het up about the debate over whether it is a choice or not is because this is central to the Christian argument. If homosexuality is not a choice and God created everyone, then he made some people gay and then he said it was wrong and people should be killed for acting on it. This does not look good for God. Also nearly every single gay person says it is not a choice and they are the ultimate authority on this and the presumption of Christians in telling everyone that they are lying or mistaken because it does not fit with the concept of sin is extremely infuriating and unreasonable.

That is the most well-thought question I've seen on this forum in a long time- your final sentence specifically.

The simple answer is that it's not. Choice is not bad in any form as it allows us as humans and a societal creature, to make informed decisions and live an honest and free life.

There are people who follow religions- very forceful religions very closely and they believe, very blindly, that when it comes to life and its journey, we have been given a book of answers: The Bible.

This is interesting to me because the Bible is a book of stories and morals which we are to learn from- wether or not the people in them existed is a different kettle of fish. The Bible has actually, in its conception, REMOVED responsibility from the people reading it, by saying 'This is how to live and it is the correct way to live'. This book is over 2000 years old- how can it possibly be relevant or necessary today? Anyway, so people who study and live life by the Bible's teachings are assured that they are correct... they don't believe that anything different affecting their way of life can be tolerate because it's either spoken AGAINST in the Bible, in which case it is immoral and illegal in God's eyes, or it doesn't even exist in the Bible, in which case it is an abomination as God could not have purposefully created it, people like gays and such, which is where images of the Devil and Beelzebub are manifested- in the anti-God. The evil of the world.

While we're on the topic; what could oppose God's will? Nothing.. right? So why would a prankster evil creature even exist?

I guess the answer is obvious; he does not exist and nor does God. We are all matter floating in space randomly and freely and there's absolutely no way we can change the vastness of everything- we can only attempt to control the vastness of our minds and live our lives the way we wish to, in the best possible way. Why wouldn't anyone want that?

To answer your original question, and I do believe gay people can choose to be so, but I also do believe some gay people to have a hormone imbalance or perhaps an irregular (in terms of quantity) gene which has caused the affirmation that they prefer relations (and more often than not, are not sexual relationships) with the same gender. I actually cannot understand why, if two men love each other, or if two women love each other, does a third person have to introduce themselves into the situation and pull them apart.

What kind of world do we live in, where people are allowed to remove love from a situation?

Which is one of the many reasons I hate religious people in terms of their ignorance, not always their personality.

Hope this helped.

Very interesting question. I think that we stressed the 'choice' issue so much, since the christian churches told people to TURN AWAY from their sin. This then implied that what we are doing is a choice, and can be fixed.

Do we say it is wrong, because it is a choice? (As in your hypothesis) Or do we simply say that it is wrong per se.

If someone is born with a serious mental illness, and he does thing which is terribly (e.g. murder etc.)wrong: We would not hold him responsible for his deeds, but we still continue to say that what he has done is wrong.

We must therefor answer the question, IS HOMOSEXUALITY wrong, and not whether one is born like this or not.

EDIT: To answer my own question - As an Atheist, I do not have a set of rules contained in a Book that tells me what is right or wrong. I must use my own conscience as a guide. In my opinion, two people loving each other even in a physical way can never be wrong; unless of course you 'steal' the love of another. I further even believe that sex between consenting adults can never be wrong, immaterial of the sexes of people or how often or how many etc. Homosexuality does not affect non Homosexuals negatively in any way, except challenge their beliefs.

When they say choice, they really mean the choice to have sex out of marriage. Which unlike orientation, is indeed a choice if you can either get married or go without indefinitely (of course most gays can't get married, and few people in general can go forever without sex especially loving intimate sex between people who truly deeply love each other.) You don't hear a lot about it because if you did, they'd have to either a)let gays marry so they won't be having pre-marital sex or b)crack down on heterosexual pre-marital sex. They took the hypocritical cowardly homophobic's route. And that is the where the train of thought went, from my point of view, in a nutshell.

I'm atheist, and it doesn't matter at all whether or not it is a choice. There is nothing wrong with something capable of a consenting, and safe relationship, at least as much as straight couples anyway.

I don't really argue the choice argument based on morality, but simply based on them being incorrect. I know I didn't choose my orientation, and straight people will say they didn't choose to be straight. The only people I see saying they have a choice is the people trying to support their religion.

The problem with your suggestion is that it supports most of the abuse experienced by Homosexuals.

IF one accepts that it's a choice, then they are judging all the Gays as being immoral..

IF you make the assumption the other way around, those homophobic would also disagree...

(FTR I'm NEITHER Atheist or a Christian)

Honestly, you can't tell people that they are wrong for what they are/believe in until proven untrue. What concrete evidence do we have to prove that people are not born gay or if they choose to be. What proof besides other peoples ideas and beliefs do we have to say that it is wrong to be gay. For ***** sake let people make their own choices...at least the gays are thinking for themselves and not being bandwagon, generalizationists.

If you believe all generalizations are true you are denying the existence of your brain.

Does it affect a society from striving and moving on? there are 6 billion people on this planet and how many are gay? Even if it was a choice, that doesn't mean they can't get married, because why? because the Bible says so? and how does this make anything better? How is it going to affect you?

Exactly. It makes no sense for someone to be anti-gay JUST because they think it's a choice. It's also a choice to donate money to starving children but that's not considered morally wrong.

@Christopher "How can they be fruitful and multiply"

I've heard that gay people are very fruity...... Anyways all joking aside, they can reproduce. Gay is NOT equal to infertility.

Personally I don't really care either way. What two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home is their own business. Generally I do not condone PDA regardless of sexual orientation and ones sex life is something that does not belong at the office.