Jehovahs Witnesses: Why does Isaiah 9:6 refer to Jesus as "Eternal Father"?

Acts 4

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit,(H) said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people!(I) 9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame(J) and are being asked how he was healed, 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,(K) whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead,(L) that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is

“‘the stone you builders rejected,

which has become the cornerstone.’[a](M)

12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

Jw do dispute the above scripture by implying that Jehovah is the name that saves mankind. Jehovah is the savior. Jehovah is the REAL Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Almighty God, Eternal Father, and of course must then by pure position by the REAL Prince of Peace.

It is this dichotomy of beliefs, that spurred them on to declare birthdays unchristian. yet the bible clearly shows the angels of heaven celebrating the birth of Jesus with the Shepherds in the fields. Even the echoing of the words you quoted in Isaiah 9:6 do not convince them that Jesus is the ONLY name, ONLY salvation offered to mankind.....they must insist that Jesus name is not the most important, even though Peter was inspired by God's holy spirit to say just that.

No, Jesus gives eternal life, through his ransom sacrifice, just as a father is a life giver.

However, Jesus' Father is his God, as he is ours.

That Jesus was created is clearly stated two times in the Bible, one is in Colossians 1:15, and this is the other time:

(Revelation 3:14) “And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce′a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God,..."

It is clear that this scripture does not refer to Jehovah, since he is never called Prince of Peace or any other prince.

Christians parse these verse incorrectly. Remember that in Hebrew, the word 'is' is implied, not stated. A more accurate translation would be: And his name will be called "A Wonderful Counselor is Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."

The name is like a prayer describing G-d, not describing the person named. This kind of name is common in the Bible. There is even one person named 'Yael.' The name means, "Yah is G-d" - it does not mean that the person with the name is Yah and G-d.'

Likewise Is 9:6, and also Isaiah 7:14 ("G-d is with us", not 'G-d with us).

Zvi

Isaiah 9:6 cites credentials that show Jesus to be a worthy Ruler who can relieve us of our fears. For instance, he is called “Eternal Father,” “Wonderful Counselor,” and “Prince of Peace.”

Consider the endearing expression “Eternal Father.” As such, Jesus has the power and authority—as well as the desire—to give obedient humans the prospect of eternal life on earth by the merit of his ransom sacrifice. This means that they will finally be released from sin and imperfection inherited from the sinful first man, Adam. (Matthew 20:28; Romans 5:12; 6:23) Christ will also apply his God-given authority to bring back to life many who have died.—John 11:25, 26.

When on earth, Jesus proved to be the “Wonderful Counselor.” Because of his knowledge of God’s Word and his extraordinary understanding of human nature, Jesus knew how to solve the problems of daily life. Since his enthronement in heaven, Christ continues to be the “Wonderful Counselor,” serving as the principal figure in Jehovah’s channel of communication to mankind. Jesus’ counsel, recorded in the Bible, is always wise and flawless. Knowing and believing this can lead you to a life free of uncertainty and paralyzing fear.

Isaiah 9:6 also identifies Jesus as the “Prince of Peace.” In that capacity, Christ will soon use his power to remove all inequality—political, social, and economic. How? By bringing mankind under the one peaceful rule of the Messianic Kingdom.—Daniel 2:44.

Consider the endearing expression “Eternal Father.” As such, Jesus has the power and authority—as well as the desire—to give obedient humans the prospect of eternal life on earth by the merit of his ransom sacrifice. This means that they will finally be released from sin and imperfection inherited from the sinful first man, Adam. (Matthew 20:28; Romans 5:12; 6:23) Christ will also apply his God-given authority to bring back to life many who have died.—John 11:25, 26.

First, look at Adam. Adam, had he not sinned, would be the eternal earthly father of the entire humans race.

But, Adam chose to reject Jehovah's universal sovereignty.

Jesus, on the other hand, did not reject God's sovereignty, and is therefore responsible for eternal life for humans;

1st Corinthians 15:22 For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.

Greetings,

Some Trinitarians use Christ being called “everlasting Father” in Isa. 9:6 as evidence that Jesus must be part of a triune God. But any Trinitarian who uses this argument shows that they simply do not understand their own belief.

The mainstream Trinity teaches that there are three distinct “persons” (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) who are one God.

The Athanasian Creed states that Trinitarian’s must not “confuse the persons or divide the substance.” In other words, while all share the “substance” God, the Son cannot be the Father. Saying that Jesus is the Father is called Sebellianism or Modalism; a heresy to Trinitarians.

But, this Scripture explicitly states that Jesus is the “eternal Father.” So, we either have two “Fathers” mentioned in the Scripture or this proves Seballianism that Jesus IS The Father thus making them the same person and not three persons in one God.

So, Trinitarians (outside of E. Orthodox and older Adventists) using this interpretation are unknowingly contradicting their own belief.

Now, for the sake of argument let’s completely ignore the fact that calling Jesus the Father completely contradicts the very foundation of the Trinity and look at the underlying claim:

Some claim that the term “everlasting Father” means that Jesus was eternal and so never had a beginning. However, this requires an ignorance of Hebrew grammar, context, and word usage.

First, Trinitarians must ignore the fact that this is a prophecy for the future. It is not saying the Messiah IS a “mighty God” or “eternal father” but that he WILL BE called that in the future, and so is translated as a future tense in most Bibles. It is only obvious that this cannot be saying that Jesus was eternal since he later did die and had to be resurrected to life.

Only Jehovah is described as the eternal one “from everlasting to everlasting” (De.32:40; Ps.90:2; Hab.1:12). Only He does not die. On the other hand, the Bible repeatedly states that Jesus could and did, in fact, die! (Rev.1:17,18; 2:8; 1Pt.3:18).

Further, Rev.1:18 clearly shows that Jesus only received immortality *after* his death and resurrection (Rm.6:9-10). Jesus did not inherently possess eternal life, it was only granted to him by his God (Jn.5:27; 6:57). The fact that Jesus did die is absolute proof that Jesus cannot be Jehovah or equal to Him, since Jehovah God is “from eternity” and “cannot die.”

Jesus explains how he *later* BECAME our “everlasting father” at Jn 5:25-30: He says: “For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself...I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative...”

Christ could not give “life” to others as a “father” until his God “granted” him the power (Jn.6:57; Ac.5:31). Almighty God “by nature” has always been Eternal Father and Savior (Ps 36:9; Ac 17:25; 17:28). But, according to explicit Scripture teaching Jesus had to be “exalted” to that position by his God.

The Greek word rendered “granted” or “gave” is EDOKEN and means “granted, bestowed, given, impart, permit one to” (BAGD Greek-English Lexicon pgs. 192,193; Thayer’s Greek Lexicon pg. 146).

Jesus had to have “life in himself” (immortality) GRANTED to him. Thus Jesus was NOT from eternity or he could not have been GIVEN immortality.

Notice Jesus said “I live BECAUSE of the Father” (Jn.6:57). The Greek word translated “because of “ is “dia” and means “instrument, agency, due to, denoting the personal agent, by whose will, the reason why something happens” (Thayer’s Lexicon pg. 132,133; BAGD Lexicon pg. 180,181).

Clearly, one who owes his life to someone else is NOT from all eternity and without beginning.

The Son of God became the “Eternal Father” to all those exercising faith in his ransom sacrifice. His being “Eternal Father” to them had a beginning and was an appointment by his God. The one called “eternal father” by Isaiah was obviously not the same father that God was.

Further, the use of the word “eternal” here does not demand the meaning that the Son is eternal, or “unlimited existence both in the past and the future?”

The Hebrew word for “eternal” or “everlasting” here is AD and is used to describe “mountains” and the “continuous relations between God and his people” (BDB lexicon, pg 723. Cf. Strong’s Dictionary pg. 85; Gesenius Lexicon pg. 5706). This word is used many times to denote that which did not exist from eternity but would only exist eternally in the future (Hab. 3:6; Ps37:11, 29; 61:8; Pro.1:11; Amos 1:11).

The earth and the mountains all had a beginning. So the word AD does not signify something that had no beginning. The word refers to going forward forever into the future. The Bible uses this term at least another 39 times in the OT, and it always has the same meaning. So, it is a logical fallacy to claim that calling Jesus the “Eternal Father” means that he did not have a beginning. It also ignores Hebrew semantics.

Yours,

BAR-ANERGES

Salutations!

"Jehovahs Witnesses: Why does Isaiah 9:6 refer to Jesus as 'Eternal Father'?"

Jesus is the "Eternal Father" in the sense that he is the replacement father for Adam who sinned.

"1. How can Jesus be "Eternal Father" if he was created?"

The Hebrew word here for "Eternal" is " 'ad." It has a variety of meanings based on context. You seem to be assuming that it only means "both past eternal and future eternal." Sometimes it just means "a very long time." Habakkuk 3:6 mentions "eternal mountains" using the same word, but it doesn't mean that the mountains are past and future infinite. 'Ad can also mean "future eternal" - "Eternal Father" has that meaning.

"2. Wouldn't that mean you have TWO Eternal Fathers; Jesus and Jehovah?"

Yes, but obviously not in the same sense. Jehovah would be the "Eternal Father" in that he is both past and future eternal, and he is our ultimate heavenly Father. Jesus is the "Eternal Father" in that he is the replacement original father of mankind, because Adam sinned, and he will serve that role for eternity.

Now, on Trinitarianism, Jesus is the second person of the Trinity, the only person of the triune God who has the role of "Messiah." Isaiah 9:6 is prophetically referring to Jesus the Son of God. It is not referring to the Father or the Holy Spirit, or to "God" as one being. So even on Trinitarianism you have the problem of having two Fathers. God the Father would have to be the Father in one sense, And Jesus the Son would have to be a Father in another sense.

Trinitarian scholars recognize this. This is what the NET Bible says about "Eternal Father" in its footnote on Isaiah 9:6:

"This title must not be taken in an anachronistic Trinitarian sense. (To do so would be theologically problematic, for the "Son" is the messianic king and is distinct in his person from God the "Father.") Rather, in its original context the title pictures the king as the protector of his people. For a similar use of "father" see Isa 22:21 and Job 29:16. This figurative, idiomatic use of "father" is not limited to the Bible. In a Phoenician inscription (ca. 850–800 B.C.) the ruler Kilamuwa declares: "To some I was a father, to others I was a mother." In another inscription (ca. 800 B.C.) the ruler Azitawadda boasts that the god Baal made him "a father and a mother" to his people. (See ANET 499–500.) The use of "everlasting" might suggest the deity of the king (as the one who has total control over eternity), but Isaiah and his audience may have understood the term as royal hyperbole emphasizing the king's long reign or enduring dynasty (for examples of such hyperbolic language used of the Davidic king, see 1 Kgs 1:31; Pss 21:4–6; 61:6–7; 72:5, 17). The New Testament indicates that the hyperbolic language (as in the case of the title "Mighty God") is literally realized in the ultimate fulfillment of the prophecy, for Jesus will rule eternally."

In conclusion, the non-Trinitarian view of "Eternal Father" is not problematic at all.

Yours,

Abernathy the Dull

Adam was "father" of mankind, wasn't he?

Luke 3:38

English Standard Version (ESV)

38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Adam came to be via the "breath" of YHWH/ JEHOVAH:

Genesis 2:7

American Standard Version (ASV)

7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The Last Adam became something else:

1 Corinthians 15:45

English Standard Version (ESV)

45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”;[a] the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Footnotes:

1 Corinthians 15:45 Greek a living soul

Now we know that Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but, was made alive as an immortal spirit:

1 Peter 3:18

English Standard Version (ESV)

18 For Christ also suffered[a] once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

Footnotes:

1 Peter 3:18 Some manuscripts died

Therefore as Adam was "father" of mankind, Jesus may be called "Eternal Father" by all whom benefit from His ransom sacrifice and live no longer for themselves but for the Christ.

Romans 6:7-11

English Standard Version (ESV)

7 For one who has died has been set free[a] from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Footnotes:

Romans 6:7 Greek has been justified

1 Peter 1:3

English Standard Version (ESV)

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:18-21

English Standard Version (ESV)

18 knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. 20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

lol. these guys have 2 firsts and 2 lasts, even tho scripture says only 1.

they have a mighty god and an almighty god, even tho scripture says only 1.

talk about wrongly dividing scripture.

i believe that it would translate better as "father of eternity".

since jesus is creator of all things, and apart from him nothing was made that was made, and of him all things consist.