Jehovahs Witnesses: Why promote a brochure about the Trinity when it's full of half-truths and misquotes?

IF many JWs went to actual source of the quotes

themselves. They would be in for a big shock!

Many of the quotes JW publication use are

misinterpretated by use of ellipses!

How the WT org suggests it means ends up being

completely opposite to how the original writer/author

intended it to convey!

Ellipses cover up a multitude of 'sins' by perverting

the true understanding of such quotes to support

their LIES!

Greetings,

This complaint of "selective quoting" is a common complaint from Trinitarians when they are faced with honest statements of Trinitarian scholars. Your real problem is not with the Witnesses or with their Trinity brochure, but is with your own scholars who repeatedly admit that they find no doctrine of the Trinity until three or four hundred years after Christ's time.

The Watchtower's quotes were entirely accurate. They did not change what the author said or meant. While, the source authors gave their personal theological viewpoints in support of the Trinity this does not change what they had already clearly admitted. There is no corruption, deception or misuse of the quotes by the WTS.

There is nothing wrong with quoting an author where he gives facts that work against his own theology. Criticizing the WT for doing this is dishonest and hypocritical since most other reference works do exactly the same thing. For example, if you examine many books by creationists you will find that they quote evolutionist's admissions of a lack of scientific evidence, yet these quotes do not include the evolutionist's arguments in favor of evolution. It is understood that they believe in evolution. Similarly, when you quote from Trinitarian sources it is understood that they believe in the Trinity.

You can selectively condemn the WT all you want but the facts stay the same. Such quotes are not used to show anything other than what the quotes clearly demonstrate. They were not employed to demonstrate doctrinal agreement or disagreement.

A bigger problem which should be criticized is the contradictory and misleading statements found in the *source* material which the Trinity brochure used.

Further, such critics seem to imply that one can only legitimately quote a reference work which agrees with everything you teach. This is completely unreasonable. The real value in many quotes is to show that there are scholars that are NOT of your persuasion who agree with the basis for what you believe. These type of quotes are generally employed by most religious authors. So, the criticism is myopic and applies a standard that no one else applies to themselves when quoting scholarly sources in support of a particular view.

The real reason for the complaints about these Watchtower quotes is because such quotes are powerful admissions from Trinitarians' own scholars that religions are not teaching the facts from the

Bible and history.

In many years I have only seen one quote which I thought did not appropriately present what was originally said. But I have seen many, many such claims of misquoting disproved even here on Y/A.

So as a rule, the Watchtower's quotes are well researched and entirely accurate. They do not change what the author originally said. As a rule, there is no corruption, deception or misuse of quotes by the WTS.

Yours,

BAR-ANERGES

One reason is that Jehovah's Witnesses do not know that the Watchtower misquotes sources. They are not allowed to investigate this. So you will get the canned answer that Linda said, "The Watchtower carefully researches everything". What is striking is what is left UNSAID. "The Watchtower carefully researches everything....SO WE DON'T HAVE TO."

Here are the misquotes from the Trinity brochure: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/trinity.php

Something else is this: Jehovah's Witnesses do not understand WHAT the Trinity is. So they can't investigate it. They will read a scripture like John 20:28 and they don't understand what that is saying. They think only in the way the Watchtower tells them to think. Here is the WT definition of the trinity:

"Christendom has copied the heathen, pagan nations of Asia in teaching that God is a trinity, three Gods in one Person." Watchtower 1962 Apr 15 p.235

Actually this is modalism. It's not the trinity. The trinity merely states that the Bible calls Jesus God, The Father God, and the Holy Spirit God. They are 3 SEPARATE persons. But they all have the title of the one true God. Jesus even said He was Jehovah. John 17:12 says: "While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled."

But Phil 2:9 says that the name of Jesus is above all others (even the name Jehovah).

Back on topic, JWs do not understand nor wish to understand the truth about God. They denigrate Jesus to an angel (something the early Gnostics did). They call Jesus a created being. If they would only do their research outside of the Watchtower, they would understand the truth. Many JWs have undertaken to read the Bible without WT glasses, and the WT has condemned them for this, saying that if they read the Bible ONLY, they will go into spiritual darkness. This is telling. If you read the Bible only, you will not believe the Watchtower.

ADDITIONAL: Roberta was uninformed. It's one thing to say the quotes are intact even though the WT does not believe the rest of what is said. But the facts are that the SINGLE QUOTE has been altered. It is completely dishonest. For example they use this quote: "And the New Catholic Encyclopedia also says: "And the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the O[ld] T[estament]."" (ti p.6) However, here is the full quote that they chopped up and altered to make it appear to support their belief: "The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the OT. In many places of the OT however, expressions are used in which some of the Fathers of the Church saw references or foreshadowings of the Trinity."New Catholic Encyclopedia - p.306

So your argument is that the Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong about how the trinity is not in the Bible (and it is not, I checked in my father's King James Version while I was studying, and can just as easily prove with that Bible that the trinity does not exist, Jesus himself said so) because the quote used said that we should stop calling God "the Father" because feminists believe He might actually be a She...

And that we should stop saying the trinity is wrong because other faiths believe that Jesus is not the only way to God. Jesus is ONE way to God, but other faiths believe that Moses or Mohammad or some spirit in a tree or lake might be another way to God as well.

Tell me, how does feminists believing that God is female or non-Christian faiths believing Jesus is not the only way to God prove that God is a trinity?

First, your comment does not say that the encyclopedia quoted did not say what the brochure's quote said, it just said that there are other things in that encyclopedia that Jehovah's Witnesses did not agree with.

The literature of Jehovah's Witnesses quotes extensively from the Catholic Encyclopedia, but that doesn't mean that they agree with everything in that encyclopedia - most people would assume that it was quoted because Catholics believe in the trinity, and by them saying what they did in their own encyclopedia was significant. It said:

“The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

ETA: The quote found in the "jwfacts" (which are not facts) of this encyclopedia quote has a different page number (p. 306), indicating a different edition from this one was quoted. Online libraries list at least four newer editions were published, when apparently the quote was changed.

There is no implied agreement of Jehovah's Witnesses with everything that a reference document says when one statement is quoted in our literature. Nobody would assume that, and it is just unfair to claim it.

ETA: It is also very unfair to assert that Jehovah's Witnesses are not "allowed" to check behind the sources of the quotes in the literature. I have been doing it for years, and in doing that, I am following the example of elders and pioneers (full time ministers in the field) who do the same. I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses with my eyes wide open and very aware of the beliefs of others and the history of this Christian faith.

There is a big difference between a truth and an opinion.

Example: Vine's Bible dictionary states:

"The literal translation 'a god was the Word' is misleading"

In this one sentence you have truth "literal translation 'a god was the Word'"

and Vine's opinion.

"is misleading".

To quote a true statement and to ignore the opinion of the writer is not a half quote nor is it a half truth. It is separating the wheat from the weeds.

.

Because no Jehovah's Witness is prepared to contemplate the possibility that the Governing Body (who are entirely responsible for all the stuff that gets printed) is guilty of scholastic dishonesty. Here are some exapmles, taken directly out of their Trinity booklet:

Page 6 – Yale University professor E. Washburn Hopkins affirmed: “To Jesus and Paul the doctrine of the trinity was apparently unknown; …they say nothing about it.” – Origin and Evolution of Religion. Here is the missing part: “The beginning of the doctrine of the Trinity appears already in John. To Jesus and Paul the doctrine of the trinity was apparently unknown.” The point is that while Hopkins believes Jesus and Paul did not know the doctrine of the trinity, in the preceding sentence he says the Gospel of John clearly teaches the trinity doctrine! Why did the WTS leave that sentence out? Furthermore, Hopkins believes Christianity comes from Buddhism! He wrote: “Finally, the life, temptation, miracles parables and even the disciples of Jesus have been derived directly from Buddhism.” They opinion of someone who does not believe in Christianity is used by them to refute the Trinity.

Page 11 – In the book Egyptian Religion, Siegfried Morenz notes: “The trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians… Three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology.” However, the next sentence goes on to say: “In order to avoid any gross misunderstanding, we must at once emphasize that the substance of the Christian Trinity is of course Biblical: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The three are mentioned alongside one another in the New Testament, probably for liturgical reasons.” Why did the WTS deliberately stop their quotation prior to this sentence? Why did they not want the readers of the Trinity booklet to know that Morenz says the Bible teaches the Trinity doctrine?

Pages 19 & 20 – As the Rylands Bulletin states: “The fact has to be faced that New Testament research over, say, the last thirty or forty years has been leading to increasing number of reputable New Testament scholars to the conclusion that Jesus… certainly never believed himself to be God.” And the missing part from that quotation? “Jesus himself may not have claimed any of the Christological titles which the Gospels ascribe to him, not even the functional designation ‘Christ’ and…” Why did the WTS partially quote from a source that claims Jesus was not the Christ? Would any Christian accept the views of “scholars” who do not believe in Christ Jesus? No wonder they left out that telling part from the quotation!

There's more - much more - but no Jehovah's Witness dares to question the Governing Body otherwise they will be accused of questioning Jehovah. I doubt any of them will dare to read the work of an accredited Bible scholar who gives verifible evidence on what the early church REALLY believed about the person of Jesus and the relationship between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (see link below):

I read the Brochure, it's great, as it shows that Jehovah, Jesus, and the holy spirit are not in a trinity.

Acts 10:38 , 38 namely, Jesus who was from Naz′a‧reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil; because God was with him.

The fact is Danny- millions of people have a hard time trying to work their way through the Trinity mess because it makes no sense whatsoever.

Lets use Common Sense here ok?

The Ancient Nation of Israel from the time of Moses, Abraham going all the way through to the time of the coming of the Christ were never at anytime told that God was part of a trinity.

The Jewish people who were looking forward to the coming of the Messiah did not think that " God was going to appear before them in person and at some point DIE".. that would be viewed as heresy. They ( Jews) were well aware that Moses who was called the meekest Man who ever lived: asked, begged God to please show himself to Moses...

" At this he said: “Cause me to see, please, your glory.” 19 But he said: “I myself shall cause all my goodness to pass before your face, and I will declare the name of Jehovah before you; and I will favor the one whom I may favor, and I will show mercy to the one to whom I may show mercy.” 20 And he added: “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.” ( Ex 33:18-20)

Had God shown Moses himself- was Moses expected to see 3 Persons ?

Since Jesus said that " Salvation originated with the Jews"- ( John 4:22) it stands to reason that they believed in a Singular God, they were not mistaken as to whether Jesus was the Son of God or God himself- to think otherwise is to say that Mary knew that she was carrying the creator in her womb which is absurd. The whole doctrine of the trinity is an affront to God himself.

The Angel Gabriel told Mary (Luke 1:32) This one will be great and will be called Son of the MOST HIGH; and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father,

If Jesus is God.... who is the " Most High"? It cannot be speaking of Jesus since it says Jesus would BE.. the Son of the Most High.

The Trinity argument has way too many holes because its satanic in nature- running away from it is the best course in life.

The reason why people believe in the trinty is because they have adopted a pagan teaching that dates back to Babylon and Egypt.

OK, so here we go, all my OWN research using the Bible, just for you!

Jesus in Praying to HIS FATHER said: "This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ. John 17: 3. So listen to what the son says when he calls his father THE ONLY TRUE GOD!

Here are a few more things to think about, , "

The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him." (John 13:16) Jesus said on numerous occasions that, "the Father… hath sent me." (John 5:37,6:37)

Jesus prays to God. (John 17:1-3)

Jesus has faith in God. (Hebrews 2:17,18, Hebrews 3:2)

Jesus is a servant of God. (Acts 3:13)

Jesus does not know things God knows. (Mark 13:32, Revelation 1:1)

Jesus worships God. (John 4:22)

Jesus has one who is God to him. (Revelation 3:12)

Jesus is in subjection to God. (1 Corinthians 15:28)

Jesus' head is God. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

Jesus has reverent submission, fear, of God. (Hebrews 5:7)

Jesus is given lordship by God. (Acts 2:36)

Jesus is exalted by God.(Acts 5:31)

Jesus is made high priest by God. (Hebrews 5:10)

Jesus is given authority by God. (Philippians 2:9)

Jesus is given kingship by God. (Luke 1:32,33)

Jesus is given judgment by God. (Acts 10:42)

"God raised [Jesus] from the dead". (Acts 2:24, Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 15:15)

Jesus is at the right hand of God. (Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, Acts 2:33, Romans 8:34)

Jesus is the one human mediator between the one God and man. (1 Timothy 2:5)

No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. (1 John 4:12)

God put everything, except Himself, under Jesus. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)

Jesus did not think being "equal with God" was graspable. (Philippians 2:6)

"Around the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, saying "Eli Eli lama sabachthani?" which is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"" (Matthew 27:46)

I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man" with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." Rev 14: 14-15 Here is Jesus is taking orders from another angel ! Can we beleive that an angel who orders Christ to harvest the earth is giving orders to God Himself! Or that he would have to tell the omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing) Most High "God the Son" when and how to do anything?

TRUE Christians do not accept the pagan trinity teaching!

See "The Truth About the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit"

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teac...

All material presented in the Watchtower is carefully researched. We welcome you to pursue the study of any material available to find the truth.

The Catholic encyclopedia for instance, states that many things that are pagan have been sanctified by being adopted into the church.

The bible states "Keep yourselves free of all things that are pagan."

Many of us have chosen to follow the teaching of the bible rather than the teaching of any church.