Rock and Pop: Why the hatred for rap and hip-hop?

Question

I've noticed over my years on this forum that there are a lot of people in this section that have some kind of massive, irrational hate b*ner for rap and hip-hop. Before we begin, let me state that I am a huge fan of music in general, including rock and metal, and most of my answers on this site attest to that.

The most common things I see cited are:
1) "Rappers have no talent, unlike rock musicians!"
So, let's discuss this: With rap music, you have to be able to get by on lyrics alone - with rock, as long as it's catchy enough, you can get away with just about anything. Case in point - "Hook" by Blues Traveler. "Smells like Teen Spirit" by Nirvana.
Rap songs have pretty strict guidelines when it comes to song structure. Your lyrics have to flow continuously, without breaking the pace except in the parts of the song where your tempo changes. They have to follow a pretty strict rhyming pattern. Not all rap follows this, of course, but rap works very much the same as rock/pop music. You don't want to listen to what's *popular*, because that stuff is garbage. If you're unwilling to dig, you won't find good stuff.
Rappers have to be able to enunciate clearly, especially when they've got their stretch of lyrics that they spit at breakneck speeds - you've all heard at least one song where the artists starts rapping so fast that you don't even have time to process what he's saying. But you can understand it, because the words don't run together the way they would if the rapper's enunciation weren't perfect.
In rap battles, you have to be able to more or less memorize your opponent's entire spiel - you have to listen, sort, and retain that information so that you can debunk and counter his assertions with your retort. On top of that, it's all improvisation, so you have to come up with entire stanzas at a time that keep a rhythm, rhyme, dismiss whatever your opponent said about you AND have a rebuttal, while you're in the middle of saying something completely different. This means that you have to be able to simultaneously speak, flow, rhyme, respond and counter while thinking of something else entirely. And they keep this up until there is a clear winner.
For an idea of how difficult this is, go ahead and write a poem. It has to follow a specific rhythm and rhyme scheme, and be sure to include a rebuttal to a supposed insult. Now, while reciting that poem out loud, write another poem beside it that follows the same rhythm and rhyme scheme, but has very little to do with the first poem. They both have to have a clear train of thought, and decent quality writing. Do not even begin to consider the second poem until you start reciting the first. I guarantee there's not a single person who answers this who can do it.

2) "At least rock musicians can play instruments!"
This is a logical fallacy. There are a lot of rock vocalists who can't play any instruments. There are also a lot of rap artists who can - many of them at least play either the keys or the drums, which are two of the most common instruments you'll find in rap music.

3) "They're all about drugs and money and crime"
No, they're not, and the ones that are are examples of their demographic culture - that is to say, ghetto kids, a lot of whom are stoners, grow up without much money, and are in and out of trouble with the law. Rap music isn't written for upper-crust , white-collar rich people, so don't expect the lyrics to be about running corporations or paying off your mortgage. Rap music is about sharing shared experiences with the fans.
On top of that, there are a lot of rap songs about just being yourself, rising above the stuff that goes on in the streets, and, hell, some of them are even tributes to people who played a big part in various artists' lives, such as Tupac's "Dear Mama", Pete Rock and C.L. Smooth's "They Reminisce Over You (T.R.O.Y)" and People Under the Stairs' "Days Like These". How often do you see that in rock?

If you're going to complain about and insult entire genres of music and the people who perform them, at least have some valid points.

BQ1: Who is your favourite rap artist, if applicable?
BQ2: What is your favourite rap song?
BQ3: Would you be willing to listen to rap music if it had lyrics that weren't about drugs, crime, or money?

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

i've said it before, but having a passionate hate for any art form is generally the domain of 15 year old middle school guys trying to be cool and individualistic like everyone else. i equate the hate of rap and hip hop today with another musical art form that was vilified when i was in my 20's, disco music of the 70's. it seemed everyone outwardly hated disco then, but i'm sure they didn't change the station when the bee gees came on, and probably know more lyrics to disco songs that to styx songs.

however:
1. perceptions are always individualized, thus it's very difficult to quantify talent to anyone but yourself.
    in the case of rap and hip hop, and as you point out, many of the artists are doing improvisitional     singing, that's not so different than what many musicians that play instruments do. it's not very different from what scat singers like mel torme and ella fitzgerald did back in the mid 1900's. i never heard anyone say they didn't have talent.

2. so what, i could make a list a mile long of musically talented people that never played an instrument.

3. "to generalize is to be an idiot."  william blake

? · Answer

While I don't hate rap, I agree that it's not rock & roll and doesn't belong in the same genre.  And it most certainly does involve less musical talent and inclination.  Let me provide rebuttals for your points...

1) I could go on forever with the list of stupid or nonsensical rap lyrics, but let's use a couple of super-popular examples.

- Bomb with the bomb the bang-da-dang diggy diggy diggy
- I said hip hop, hibbit to the hibbit the hip hip hop until the break of dawn

... now what was that you were saying about how everything was meaningful in rap?

2) Rapping isn't singing, and a computer isn't a musical instrument.  Period.  All you need to do is be able to count to four over and over to make the words fit in time with the beat.  Every musician in the world has to do that, so it's not really impressive when a rapper can.  Musical talent is not required to be a rapper.

3) Lyrical content doesn't matter.  Someone can rap or sing about anything they want, and it still doesn't matter.  Lyrics not set to music are called poetry, and poetry isn't rock and roll either.  Lyrical content has nothing to do with music.

And there you go.  You proved that rappers can speak clearly with your arguments, but that's about it.

BQ: Run DMC, Public Enemy.  Hard to say which one I like better.
BQ2: That's a tough one.  There are so many.
BQ3:  Sure.  I do it all the time.

ριѕ¢єѕ ƒιѕн · Answer

I'm not a fan of rap music, but I certainly don't hate it. I'm sure there are plenty of legitimate rap artists out there who aren't as popular, so I take that into consideration. Rap is intricate poetry; and I do appreciate the talent necessary to conceive it.

What I personally cannot stand are the vast majority of rappers played over the radio. Their lyrics are derogatory towards women, or, as you mentioned, written about drugs, drinking, money, partying, etc., bound by countless words that being considered offensive would be an understatement. So, for the same reason why I can't stand pop music as well (though their lyrics are at least toned down), I hate that the music spreads illicit and negative messages to a mainly young audience.

BQ: Eminem. He's insanely talented, though I really only listen to his funny early music. His later songs are too angry for my taste. I also like rap rock, since I find that genre's lyrics to be far more worthwhile. Linkin Park, for example, is one of my favorites; Mike Shinoda is great!
BQ2: Just Lose It - Eminem
BQ3: If they spread a POSITIVE message; of course! :)

Joe &quot;Seller&quot; Ayala - TDCO · Answer

People don't take the time to understand the complexities of Rap, They'll just go and listen to one Lil Wayne song and automatically assume that it ALL sucks.

It's like if you listened to a Cannibal Corpse song and assumed all metal was just growling and about murder and gore.

Your argument may be kind of long but its definately spot on. I mean sure, instrumentally speaking, rap may not be as complex as Rock and other genres but that doesnt mean it doesnt have merit. Rock fans will go around saying something like "I'd love to see them try and play a guitar", when the people who say that probably couldnt rap to an entire song without having to stop and remember lyrics or to catch their breath.

It all really comes down to people being ignorant and not realizing that opinion and fact are different. Just because you dont like a certain genre, it doesnt mean it sucks. There is no good or bad when it comes to music.

BQ1: Of all time, Definitely Tupac Shakur. My favorite modern rap group is Die Antwoord.
BQ2: "Dear Mama" and "Life Goes On" both by Tupac
BQ3: I'm already into rap.

Amy · Answer

I will admit that at first I used to fit in with the haters, but then I kind of had a waking moment and realized that what they play on the radio isn't all that's out there. I think people hate on rap because it's become a sort of expectation of rock and metal fans, like "if you like rap and hip-hop then you ain't a true rocker/metal head". Which sucks, because people are free to like whatever they want and they shouldn't be stereotyped by music taste.

I also think that rock/metal fans are prone to hate on rap/hip hop because of the fact that it's way harder than it seems, just like most any other genre. How many rock/metal artists can rap? How many rappers are there that can play rock and metal? That right there's a never-ending cycle of an argument. "We can do this better then them, so we have more talent". Uh, no. Just a different kind of talent.

I can see why people hate rap/hip-hip and the like. What I don't get is why they feel they have to denote it so severely. It's not like it's going to stop the other genre from expanding and getting more attention, because every genre is widely known in some place or other.

BQ1- I can't pick one artist, but I do like Nas, Grand Master Wizard, Lauryn Hill, Eminem (when he's not pissed off at the world and talking about killing), Busta Rhymes, Mos Def, LL Cool J, Salt N' Pepa, Latifah, and Missy Elliot (just to name artists that I listen to quite a bit, though most of them are from decades past, the older stuff seems more original anymore). Oh yeah, forgot Mike Shinoda and his work with Fort Minor.

BQ2- Dude, I couldn't narrow it to one favorite artist, let alone one favorite song XD

BQ3- Of course. Though, the stupid spoof songs about those are funny, stuff The Lonely Island does.

Anonymous · Answer

The world is full of ignorant people in general.  Music fans in particular are often ignorant morons who can't play any instrument, read music, or carry a tune in any fashion whatsoever, yet hold themselves to be experts of some kind, perhaps because they know the date on which buddy holly first puked on his own shoes or whatever.  I don't think there's much more to it than that.

I don't really keep much track of artists names and so on, for the most part, beyond most of the old famous ones.  There's some rap artists you can easily find on youtube or elsewhere, that do stuff easily as good as anything being put out by the jazz artists of say fifty years ago, I think.

? · Answer

People judge entire genres based on what they've heard on the radio. Saying that all rap is like Lil' Wayne etc is like saying all rock is like Nickelback etc. Rapping actually takes a lot of skill and there are some amazing lyricists in the genre

BQ: Mos Def

BQ2: Respiration - Mos Def, Talib Kweli, and Common

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeTnog5RRQo

BQ3: I already do

BQ: Mos Def
BQ2: Respiration - Mos Def, Talib Kweli, and Common
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeTnog5RRQo
BQ3: I already do

Anonymous · Answer

Probably because a lot of people do not consider it "real music." The one's who hate it probably consider it to be a bunch of noise. It's basically poetry set to music. Like a lot of pop music, a lot of rap/hip-sop is a bunch of fluff. People performing about a bunch of stuff that has no real meaning.

Nick · Answer

Ok there are musicians..and rapper ..a rapper is not a musician by any means...yes to  have good lyrics got to hold up..but a musician practice for years to perfect there art..where as rappers now dont have to perfect there male some to sell give a couple of lines...ok a old rap once said there are mc ane rapper...a mc can rite music over any thing rock blues jazz or funk with out a beat made on a machine...none of the rappers today are mcs...they right **** that makes no sense...jay z said i got locked and now i am free...what does this mean..the line makes no sense..you cant be free in jail...plus there is a art to sampleing but new rappers have mass produce beat..old mcs study the art ..these study nothing but what street cred is..new are not musicians..lil wayne cant play the guitar or drums or any instrument of any kind....when you learn who some real mcs are come talk then...now every one thinks they can rap...when people leaen a instrument it take time and lots more mind control to not get lost in what others are playing...then let ask this why does every rapper want to be a rockstar..and die of drugs..where skin thight jeans..dye there hair...where 80 style glam rock close...get mohawks...realy half a mohawk...rapper try to be rockstars of the 80...rock musician are over this...drugs dont make play better lessen learned by us...or how u dress its the music we make...it for us not the fans...where rap no is about sales not the lyrics any more or beats...

KacieKK · Answer

I like Rap if it has meaning, and it's no dirty..... I love rock too

BQ1: Mike Shinoda( of Linkin Park)
BQ2: Until it Breaks
BQ3: Yes, of course

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Rock and Pop: Why the hatred for rap and hip-hop?

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