I am obsessing over the perfect handgun to buy?

1) They can ... it basically is a .454 Casull. A 45 ACP is about 230 grains and about 950 FPS. A .454 Casull in 240 grains runs about 1,900 FPS.

So far there isn't really a semi-auto that can take that pounding and it recoils pretty hard.

2) 10mm is actually a significantly more powerful round than 9mm. The 10mm round is generally quite a bit heavier - most 9mm is 115 or 124 grain, 10 mm is typically 180 grain and runs the same velocity. That gives it approximately 41 Magnum energy which has some legitimate pop. Generally the most powerful conventional semi-auto caliber.

3) Yeah ... that's not too far off. They overlap, the high end of the .357 Sig overlaps the low end of .357 magnum. I'm not a huge proponent of necked rounds in semi-auto pistols, and I'm not a huge fan of the .357 Sig or the .400 Cor-bon, or the .45 GAP for that matter.

4) Yeah, probably. You are generally looking at enough energy to hunt black bear, it will punch clean through a person without much trouble.

5) Because it's not the Nazi version, it's the NATO version. The Nazi version was pushing 1,600 FPS or more, the NATO round backs it down to around 1,300. It's plentiful and cheap.

Thinkingblade

BWAHAHAHAHAH!

Here you are obsessing over bullshit, son. Learn how to hit with a handgun first before you worry about things like "energy transfer hypothesis."

I'll answer your questions:

1) Becasue the .45acp's casing and guns chambered for it do not have the pressure rating for the amount of powder necessary to drive a bullet "twice as fast". Period.

2) Because the 10 has ballistics like a .41 mag. Your millimeter comparison is laughable and demonstrates you know little to nothing about real firearms.

3) You are only partially correct. Especially since the power of the .357 Mag in an autoloader has already been done by both an autoloader IN .357 Magnum and the much older .38 Super. But the .357 Sig, for all its faults, does deliver the same velocity for the same grain weight as the .357 Magnum. The fact that you're a sucker has nothing to do with believing something that's not true and everything to do with deliberately choosing a necked-down .40 instead of just going with the .40.

4) Yes. Although you can, if you handload, load the .454 Casull with loads which mimic the .45 long colt, .44 Special, or .45acp ballistically, which is far BELOW the .454 Casull's max pressure, so any gun chambered in .454 Casull would handle the "defensive" load easily and with the right bullets, it would be an effective manstopper.

5) Because not all cops are 6' country boys. Female police officers are a fact. That, and the rules of land warfare forbid the use of jacketed hollowpoints, whereas LE and other US Civilian agencies may use projectiles which are designed to expand in order to transfer more energy to the target through that expansion, in which case you can USE more of the energy of the 9mm, instead of just wasting it through overpenetration of the ball round.

And finally, it wasn't just the 1911 that was the all deciding factor in WWII. There were a lot of other factors involved as well, not the least of which was the fact that the 1911 PISTOL, in WHATEVER CALIBER IT WAS IN, was a DAMN SIGHT MORE RELIABLE THAN THE LUGER.

Son, you need to learn more about guns instead of posting inane questions which merely showcase your blinding ignorance. Why don't you actually SHOOT all these guns in the calibers you're talking about and THEN come and ask questions? You would sound a whole lot more credible.

Brain:

Don't drive yourself nuts. This is America. You don't have to choose. You can own one of each.

The #1 "One shot stop" caliber, statistically, is the .357mag. Does that mean others wouldn't work better? Sure they would. A .357 maximum is going to impart more energy, given the same bullet loaded to the firearms potential.

Your .454 Casul would work just fine, with the right bullet design. So would a .50AE or a .50S&W, even a .50BMG, (Yes, there were handguns made in this caliber) The problem with the uber large caliber handguns is the inability to place quick follow up shots and over penetration with the wrong bullet design. If there are two bad guys, they'd better be in single file.

The .357super was developed to increase the capacity of the 1911 frame, while providing better penetration against bad guys using cover.

The 10mm is loaded to absurdly high pressures. It's a fine round, but wimpy Federal agents couldn't control it, so they shortened the case, . . . loaded it down, . . . and the foutay was born.

The forty-five automatic Colt pistol round was not known for it's expansion. It never got smaller though. With modern bullet designs, it's a real stopper.

So pick one, then start saving for your NEXT purchase.

If you really want to gain experience with your firearm, learn to reload. Once you bring the cost down, (I shoot .38spl for less than $37/1000 rounds) then you will really begin to enjoy the sport.

Then find a NRA instructor and competition. You'll be hooked for life, as I am.

Edit: Do Not Let Anyone Tell You Revolvers NEVER jam. They do, for several reasons. When they do, it's generally NOT fixable without tools. Cylinders lock up from lack of cleaning. Bullets back out due to lack of crimp, from recoil. Timing hands wear out, locking up the works. Firing pins break. Etc. I've had a Colt Cobra cylinder lock up on me. Firearm was frozen until I got home with some tools. That's my carry firearm.

Next Edit: The .45acp can and has been loaded way up. The 1911 frame is capable of handling tremendous pressures. Some people need to look up the .460 Roland.

Yes you are. PROVEN FACT: you want something dead with a handgun you have to hit a major organ or blood vessel. Unless you carry something entirely overpowered like the 454 or 500 permanent crush cavities don't even happen. It comes down to personal choice.

1. Great caliber, have several, seen many people shot dead with it. It can and will over-penetrate with FMJ. More powder = more pressure, not all problems are solved by MORE.

2. Not as big as the .45, can hold more, designed to bridge the gap by the FBI.

3. Do the math, I've got a .357 sig barrel for my .40, ran it through the chrono and did the calculations and it is just as powerful (for lower weights) as the magnum. Plus you can load three times as many in a magazine. With hollowpoints it will not over-penetrate.

4. Yes. Very yes.

5. NATO decided on 9mm because it has softer felt recoil and more can be carried in a magazine, also there was discussion about women and men with smaller hands being able to hold a smaller frame pistol.

1, In the Philippines, I believe you will find that they went from the 38 to the 45 Long Colt. The 1911 ACP had not been invented yet.

If the biggest complaint about the 45 ACP is that it is slow moving, then they don't really have a complaint. The 45 ACP is heavy. If it doesn't come out the other side (over-penetrate), then it delivers 100% of the net force to the target. There is nothing to be gained by increasing the velocity except over-penetration and increased recoil.

2-3 Yawn.

4. You've got to be kidding. Most confrontations are within 4 - 7 yards. You'll end up killing your neighbor's child two doors over. Look at the image at this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.460_S%26W_Magnum

5. Blame it on accommodating NATO. The Marine Corps is in the process of returning to the 1911 platform.

1. If you want a more powerful .45, I think they call it the .454 Casull.

2. Larger, heavier, faster bullet.

3. The 125 gr is the only one that even comes close to the .357 Mag.

4. Most definately.

5. The .45 ACP has too much recoil for some of the people that they allow to be in law enforcement. The .40 S&W has a decent following with law enforcement.

I agree with August.

It is not just the round you need to think about, it is also a choice between revolver and semi-automatic.

I love the .45 ACP but on the rare occasions when I exercise my CCW permit I carry a .357

http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/specSheets/572...

Why? Because revolvers always work and there is nothing to think about, such as

-is there a round in the chamber?

-safety off?

-how much lint and sweat got into it since the last time I cleaned it?

-------Revolvers always work and are very safe.

Many people are concerned about reloading time. But if you look at the statistics, in a defensive shooting, typically 2-3 rounds are fired by the defendant and the whole thing is over before anyone has to reload. For the revolver I have constructed a leather pouch with a snap cover containing another 12 rounds. It is about 2" x 2" x 3/8" and I keep it on a pants pocket on the other side of my body from the pistol. Takes up a lot less room than a spare magazine or two.

As for the .45 being slow-moving, most defensive shootings happen at less than 10' distance so speed of bullet makes no difference.

At home, when i answer the front door at night I have a .45ACP with a 10 round magazine and a spare mag in my pocket. Nobody sees it because once I know who it is I set it atop a bookcase next to the door. To the visitor it seems like I have my right hand resting atop the bookcase (out of their sight) and there's never any reason for them to wonder why.

I agree with your 1-5.

5. It is a NATO round. Too many cops can't handle a larger firearm. I suspect this is part of the reason why the dummies empty their pistols into a person or vehicle; they know it is a wimpy round.

1, of course you can, but you'd need a all new gun and possibly a longer action. it will most likely end up being a revolver because the cartridges will be too long to work in a magazine-in-grip layout semiautomatic handgun. if you're wondering what's the prefect caliber I have it ready. the 450/500 Magnum. you're gonna need a big beefy gun, like a X-frame revolver to handle the huge cartridges.

2, 10mm Auto is a completely different round from 9mm, if you compared to two you'll see why they're so different! namely the case capacity difference is huge!

3, no comments

4, because the way the loads are configured. the bullets are designed to penetrate too much, they will zip right thru a person with very little expansion, making them unsuitable for self/home defense. of course you can re-configure the loads to work with what you want... but i don't know if it'll work.

5, because 9mm is easier to handle and people are able ot shoot it more effectively.

if you want something that is absolutely super high power with 100% energy transfer I have it... it's just waiting to be implemented!

as it turns out, 45 is the prefect bullet diameter, for pistols. it might not be true for rifle, but that's still to be determined. anything smaller you're either going the have a bullet with such poor BC it bleeds of energy like its got a parachute. or you're gonna have something long and heavy that will penetrate too much without satisfactory levels of expansion. also long bullets = twist rates with very limited bullet choices. it causes problems. larger than 45 you're also going ot run into problems. namely, you can't get that bigger 50 cal bullet up to speed. it might be the terrible BC, i really don't know, but I've wasted too much powder trying ot figure it out.

the magical velocity to get the 45 bullet to preform as desired is also discovered. you want 100% energy transfer with 0% charge of overpenetration. that velocity is between 2390 and 2800 fps. the 'ideal' range being around 2460 fps to 2600 fps. faster- bullet bleeds off energy like it's got a parachute. slower and the bullet does not perform as desired, primarily- it overpenetrates.

it really comes down to what you mate the 45 bullet with, the cartridge and how much powder. something like 45 acp, you're gonna get 1000 fps tops. 454 casull would net you 1800 or so fps, fast but still short of the magical bullet velocity. you need something with huge case capacity. something that can hold all the powder you're gonna need, and then some (space for bullet)

the first combination is either a 500 S&W Mag case, as in saboted projectile, or my wildcat, 450/500 Magnum. saboted projectile have their advantages. reduced bullet friction, reduced bore wear, easy clean up, no lead/copper fouling, bullets tend to go faster. the downside of using saboted projectiles- seating consistently is a PITA. sabots vary, you can only use only one brand of sabots. you loose about 1/2" of case capacity for the sabot.

the 450/500 Magnum is a bottlenecked wildcat, it is the perfect combination of case capacity to bullet caliber. it is basically a 500 S&W Mag case, lengthened to 2", necked down to .45. the unique thing about the design is that it's able to shoot both 0.452 and 0.458 bullets, giving you a wider range of loads.

It would have a wide load variety, from pistol bullets for plinking to big rifle bullets for hunting of big game, but you'd also have copper and lead fouling like any other gun, and you're not going ot load as heavy due to increased friction of bullet in bore.

so- 500 S&W Mag: off the shelf, oddball solution

450/500 Magnum: dedicated solution to problem, however custom everything. it will be expensive.

You know... I'd love to try and educate you, but I think it would take too much time.

Why don't you try actually learning for yourself? There is NO "perfect handgun" to buy. Period. Every cartridge, every model, has some sort of sacrifices. If there was a perfect gun, there would be no other guns.

You can look on Wikipedia for information about all those things, and I'm not about to go through the ridiculous process of trying to educate you on something that you apparently have no prior knowledge about, and don't seem to want to learn.

Here's my dilemma. You come here, ask questions, receive excellent answers, then say that the answers aren't good enough. Maybe, then, it's time for YOU to do the research. I bet most of us here are tired of being your personal slaves.

.357 Magnum settles the whole 9mm vs .45 debate so get a magnum