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Lv 5

Theists: Do you have an answer to the man's free will vs. God's omniscience?

Premise A: God is omniscient.

Premise B: God, gave us a free will.

Premise C: God is good.

If you agree to both A and B, answer the following: Knowing that only 1/3 of the world's total population would believe in him, (Premise A) and that therefore, given our choice not to believe in him (Premise B)... How can God be so good (Premise C) so as to create us when HE HIMSELF KNOWS THAT WE WILL NOT BELIEVE IN HIM and therefore end in hell? Would it not be fitting of a "good" god NOT to create us in the first place if he KNOWS we are destined for hell?

Update:

Rene, at best I could understand that applying to premise C... but you are either omniscient or not. We either have a free will, or not. Could you give us an example of a shade of gray as an in between? I would very much appreciate it. Thank you for your answer :)

Update 2:

Catholic Philosopher: A God can arbitrarily do whatever he wants, hence the title of a god. Your answer seems to suggest, or so I understand, that we need "evil" people to serve as an example of what would happen were you to be bad. This, in my opinion, blows up premise B, and seems to make the all loving god an elitist, sacrificing 2/3 of his sons and daughters merely so the other 1/3 understands the evil that awaits them should they do wrong. Are you claiming that 2/3 of the population was created to be sacrificed, so to speak?

Update 3:

Aryan Buddhist: Omnipotence is also among the attributes of the judeo Christian god.

Omniscience seems to be ok with premise A and B, but destroys the possibility of premise C.

Omnipotence is ok with premise A and C, but throws premise B out the window.

Update 4:

Hope is certainty: You are correct. In fact, you are actually supporting my point. Precisely BECAUSE I have the option of choosing to not believe I have no problem with accepting premise B. However, if premise A is true, then God knows I may end up dying an atheist, which would send me to hell, and therefore make premise C invalid, because God would have created me KNOWING I was going to end up in hell anyway. Had premise C been true, premise A most likely would have to be invalid, which would eliminate the title of God to the judeo Christian one.

Update 5:

Hope is certainty: You are correct. In fact, you are actually supporting my point. Precisely BECAUSE I have the option of choosing to not believe I have no problem with accepting premise B. However, if premise A is true, then God knows I may end up dying an atheist, which would send me to hell, and therefore make premise C invalid, because God would have created me KNOWING I was going to end up in hell anyway. Had premise C been true, premise A most likely would have to be invalid, which would eliminate the title of God to the judeo Christian one.

Update 6:

NDMA: Let us assume, for the sake of the argument, that all 3 of your premises are correct. This is precisely why I ask you, a believer in God, who surely has no bias towards God at all...

Error 1: Omniscience means knowing all that is known... What one will decide regarding salvation is not known until they decide.

False. Omniscience is indeed knowing all... period, knowing all that is known is actually an oxymoron, it would suggest we are all omniscient beings for knowing all that is known WITHIN the boundaries of what we know. Actual omniscience would include that which at the time is UNknown. Therefore, wether you know or not if you will eventually edit this post, regardless of YOUR particular knowledge, will be known by an omniscient being, in this case, God.

Error 2. God preordained how one would be saved and the results, not Who would be saved.

Again, you underestimate the omniscient ability of the god in debate. If we have free will, we could work out (or not

10 Answers

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  • Rene
    Lv 7
    8 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    They are not mutually exclusive.

  • NDMA
    Lv 7
    8 years ago

    Premise A: You are an atheist and therefore predisposed against God.

    Premise B: Your bias has compromised your ability to use sound reasoning

    Premise C: Atheism is a lifestyle of denial and so you deny having any bias..

    Error 1: Omniscience means knowing all that is known... What one will decide regarding salvation is not known until they decide.

    Error 2. God preordained how one would be saved and the results, not Who would be saved.

    Error 3: God created Adam and Even and ended creating. All humans after this are the product of natural forces (reproduction) not special creations.

  • 8 years ago

    To say that God should not have created those He knows are destined for hell, assumes that God can arbitrarily remove people without altering the system.

    All people are there for the sake of the elect - the evil ones prove the patience of the good, thus making them worthy of heaven.

  • ?
    Lv 4
    4 years ago

    i ought to inform you for a undeniable actuality that Einstein ought to rip you a sparkling one for attempting to associate him with this piss detrimental argument. God isn't previous area and time. in case you try to say that something outdoors of area and time created this universe and each and every little thing in it that being does no longer, EVEN slightly, in good structure the outline of the god suggested in the bible. and that i advise no longer a unmarried aspect of the biblical god ought to tournament this being. so as that would make you a deist reevaluate that moron. If I make a on line recreation and that i recognize the way it ends and what takes position to the important personality and that i say "I furnish you loose will" have I? No I unquestionably have not. That personality can flow round, leap, artwork jointly with the ecosystem and thanks to that he says he has loose will. No. i recognize that sooner or later I"ve made a range concerning what takes position to him, i'm all understanding in that party. the in uncomplicated words way he could have loose will is that if i'm no longer all understanding. that's no longer that not user-friendly to appreciate. religious people could stay faraway from rational conversations you do not do nicely with those.

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  • Fuzzy
    Lv 7
    8 years ago

    The idea that God is omniscient about future events is unscriptural. There is plenty of material in the Bible to demonstrate that.

    He does tell us that he knows what all think so that his powers are truly awesome. That he also has the ability to see as we do (but much better) when two events are evolving that there is likely to be an accident or something like that, is a no-brainer.

    Since I know that your questions parameters are out of bounce in this important aspect, your question looses its validity to me.

  • 8 years ago

    The correct understanding of what hell is, destroys your entire argument.

    Hell is not a lake of fire, where the unbeliever or sinner is sent for eternal punishment. "Hell" is not punishment, but rather a purification process. It allows a soul to work out earthly issues that keep it earthbound instead of returning to the higher, heavenly realms.

    Hell:

    http://near-death.com/experiences/research14.html

  • ?
    Lv 4
    8 years ago

    we are all given choices and opportunities and we have the choice to do bad or good so why would it be someone elses fault if out of our own free will we choice to do something that will only hurt us. it's like blaming a parent for her/her child getting into drugs. only to a short extent will any advice our parents give us help us because from the beginning from our own free will we chose.

  • Anonymous
    8 years ago

    Simple, God knows we have free will, he knows our actions but doesn't cause them.

    If you said omnipotence instead of omniscience, thats a harder question to answer.

  • 8 years ago

    If you answer my question, which you will thoroughly enjoy, I will answer yours.

    (from your respected rival, Mark)

    I know this is a lot of information, but If you are willing to educate yourself with a relatively open and logical mind, we might be able to make sense of such a complex subject as doctrine of Catholic Christianity.

    Don't Confuse omniscience with predestination. When sitting at an intersection, you know a red light will turn green. You did not will this event into existence, but you know for a fact it will occur. God is the reason why we are all able to exist. Does that also make Him responsible for everything bad that has ever happened? No, it doesn't. People are the reason why bad things happen, and by their own decision and free will, commit themselves to hell. God does not want this just as much as anyone else, but out of love, he has given us the opportunity to make decisions for ourselves.

    I am not as smart as other theologians, so to do this subject justice, Ill direct you towards a website which I feel conveys the message a bit better than I can, If you are willing to read it. (It gets a bit sappy with religious reverence but it gets the point across... eventually)

    If you feel it is relevant enough and are willing to read it here is why bad people can go to heaven and good people can go to hell

    God is the most loving and merciful being. We are the embodiment of His love, the same way children are the embodiment of love between a man and a woman. Because God loves us so much, he has given us free will. We are not bound by instinct or impulse. We can perceive the future, are conscious of our existence, and have the frontal lobe that allows us to do this. This ultimate act of love, of giving us the ability to make our own decisions, then thrusts the responsibility of moral decisions onto us. God lets us choose the path we wish to live. We then have the choice to accept him, or deny Him. Because part of being a Christian is spreading the word of God, almost everyone on the planet hears the call to the true God. Those who don’t hear the word cannot be held accountable for not following God and in that case God has mercy. However, if you have heard the word of God, and you use His gift of free will to deny Him, He will honor your decision. God loves you and does not want to see you go to hell, but because of this love and free will he cannot hold you in heaven with him against your will. This is why even good people go to hell. They choose it; God does not banish them with wrath. There are no non-believers in hell, even Satan believes in God. It takes FAITH AND GOOD WORKS to get to heaven. Once you die your time for repentance is over. It’s like wanting to change your answers after you turned your test in, it can’t be done. And that is how good people can go to hell, because it’s fair.

    “Bad” (or what we consider as bad but cannot fully judge because we don’t know the circumstances, we can only assume) people could go to heaven if they know and love God and are genuinely sorry for what they have done (once again God knows when to apply mercy). Because we are all sinners, bad people can go to heaven if they believe in God and love him. However, nothing imperfect can enter heaven. Because God is so merciful, he has given us a chance to purify in purgatory. It’s not mentioned directly in the bible, but it is alluded to as a cleansing fire, not painful. It’s not, heaven, it’s not hell, but it is a time where we break our bad worldly habits so we can be perfect and live happily forever with God in the afterlife. However if you have committed a mortal sin, you need to go to confession and repentance or you will go to hell. Things like cussing and masturbating aren’t mortal sins, so although you are damaging your relationship with God, you will still go to purgatory, then heaven with venial sins on your soul. You cannot, however, enter heaven after committing a mortal sin (sex before marriage, killing someone innocent) that destroys your relationship with God. You can be saved through the grace of God with penance and reconciliation. God’s mercy is endless.

    Source(s): My question http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ah0qi... Website reference to answer your question http://bibletruths.150m.com/Freewill.htm
  • 8 years ago

    God knows only what he wills to know. He predestines no one to go to hell.

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