JW's: If hell is not real, what torment and flame was the rich man speaking of in Luke 16:24?

Jesus is using a Parable. How do we know ? Because we cannot conclude that the beggar went to Anraham's bosom just because he was a beggar. And we cannot conclude that the rich man went to a place of torment just for throwing crumbs at the beggar. So what this Parable represents is that the rich man represents the religious leaders that rejected Jesus and the beggar or Lazarus represented the humble people that accepted Jesus. The death of both of them represented a change in their circumstances. The beggar or humble people gained God's favor while on the other hand the rich man or religious leaders lost God's favor.

Jesus' parables would were in accordance with each and every-day happenings that people might want to narrate to, yet they were thoughts, made as a lot as illustrate a reality, to coach people. The thrilling component about Luke 16:19 to the excellent is that it is the only time Jesus assigns a popularity to between the characters in his tale. Oh, and 2 characters from historic previous are also noted - Abraham and Moses. Jesus' listeners knew finished nicely that Abraham and Moses were historic people. They prided themselves in being descendants of Abraham, and in protecting the Mosaic regulations! they could actually have familiar a particular individual talked about as Lazarus who outfitted the outline Jesus gave. Now, once Larazus and the rich guy die, an unusual component takes position with the tale. It switches from activities on earth (literal activities) to activities previous demise (that may not be taken actually). Then we study of such issues as a request for a drop of water on the excellent of Lazarus's finger to relax the tongue of the rich guy. nicely, if the flames were that warm, the drop of water would have evaporated before it were given everywhere close to the guy's tongue! And there grow to be a good chasm putting apart them; no individual might want to bypass it. the rich guy endured attempting to boss God and Lazarus round by asking that Lazarus be despatched to warn his brothers at residing house. No, grow to be the answer; his brothers (like him) had Moses and the prophets (contained in the Hebrew scriptures). in the journey that they did not pay interest to them, neither would they pay interest if someone lower back from the lifeless with warnings about hell. If we draw close that hell is yet another measurement, previous our journey, then we'd want to get the draw close of this. also, if all of us recognize that Jesus' listeners believed the departed souls of the lifeless went to an residing house that grow to be divided into an element of torment and an element of bliss ('the bosom of Abraham') with a good chasm or chaos between them, then it's going to make experience. That perception grow to learn by the Rabbinic colleges of Shamai and Hillel - contemporary before, throughout and after Jesus' lifetime. which means it would not count number no matter if the account is literal or parabolic - or a touch both. The truths Jesus is guidance are eternal truths. And he lower back triumphant from the lifeless, yet what number everybody is prepared to believe what he warned us of?

We notice many things about this verse.

First, this is works, not faith. Lazarus was just a beggar and rescued

BECAUSE of that.

They would both have some belief in God but the rich man was

cruel, heartless so did not oulive his belief.

So this is hell which was divided into two parts.

Jesus preached to the souls in hell, so He would preach to

those in the Paradise section who wanted to hear the

good message of His salvation.

So this 'hell' was for that time period, and would not

include this age of grace...there is no indication of that

for those who die outside of belief in Christ...

all those people were Jews...so this was for the Jews

during the dispensation of the law, works.

Now, it is grace, and I think (have studied this also) that

it's the lake of fire, the judgment that happens.

There are some scriptures directed at believers, however

that could suggest serious consequence.

Which makes sense to me also in this way.

I see where you are leaning in this. You could of just asked them to see what they have to say about it without inserting your bias with "scholars" and "take this verse out of the NWT"

Why don't you actually look at the verse Luke 16:24 on the NWT from their website before making your insinuation that it could be missing. Only take 3 minutes.

I did it for the benefit of others from http://www.jw.org/

New World Translation

Luke 16:24 ". . .So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Laz′a·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this blazing fire.. . ."

Took me less than 3 minutes.

Edit: If you know what they believe then why are you asking this question? You should have the answer ready. You know, ask a loaded question then get a load of answers it deserves.

Edit: Your excuses are weak. I found the verse on their website straight away by simply knowing chapter and verse I should find it. The misinformation you have purposely given already is not going to encourage me too believe anything you are saying now. You cannot tell a lie and suddenly I am expected to believe you are now telling something with truth. Should of done that from the start.

1st Father Abraham isn't in heaven to able to talk to anyone.

Hebrews 11:13 All these died in faith, without receiving the promises,

11:39 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,

vs 8 includes Abraham in this group.

Thus the rich man could not be literally talking to Abraham, since Abraham is asleep in death awaiting the fulfillment of the promises.

Since the rich man, Lazarus, and Abraham are not literal, why would anyone assume that the 'fire' is literal also?

And people say JW's are misguided.

.

This was the division in Sheol. The bad part from the good part known as Abraham's Bosom. While many will say it's just a parable, its clear that Jesus never used parables with real names. Lazarus was a real person from the time of Moses.

Well for starters there's plenty of hell on earth.

John 7:7

The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil.

Epistle to Jude 1:4 (to this condemnation)

---------------------------------------…

REGARDING "HELL AS A LITERAL PLACE"

What do we think Hell really is?

Old Testament (Hebrew) - Sheol is just the grave.

New Testament (Greek) - Hades is just the grave.

If you were taught that it is an eternal burning fire, stoked by Satan, please realize that the Bible says at Revelation 20:10, Revelation 20:13, 14, and Revelation 21:8 that Hades and Satan are both destroyed.

No Satan+No Hades, means there is no eternal burning hellfire.

I am curious. Do you want hell to be real? If not. Then dont ask for it.

Could not be literal because it would evaporate before it reached him. Almighty God could have burned up the human race a long time ago, if that is the type of God he is. Anybody have anything negative to say about Satan and the Demons. REVELATION 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Mi′cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

JESUS is relating an illustration about a rich man and a poor beggar named Lazarus. The rich man represents the religious leaders who are favored with spiritual privileges and opportunities, and Lazarus pictures the common people who hunger for spiritual nourishment. Jesus continues his story, describing a dramatic change in the men’s circumstances.

“Now in course of time,” Jesus says, “the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom position of Abraham. Also, the rich man died and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in the bosom position with him.”

Since the rich man and Lazarus are not literal persons but symbolize classes of people, logically their deaths are also symbolic. What do their deaths symbolize, or represent?

Jesus has just finished pointing to a change in circumstances by saying that ‘the Law and the Prophets were until John the Baptizer, but from then on the kingdom of God is being declared.’ Hence, it is with the preaching of John and Jesus Christ that both the rich man and Lazarus die to their former circumstances, or condition.

Those of the humble, repentant Lazarus class die to their former spiritually deprived condition and come into a position of divine favor. Whereas they had earlier looked to the religious leaders for what little dropped from the spiritual table, now the Scriptural truths imparted by Jesus are filling their needs. They are thus brought into the bosom, or favored position, of the Greater Abraham, Jehovah God.

On the other hand, those who make up the rich-man class come under divine disfavor because of persistently refusing to accept the Kingdom message taught by Jesus. They thereby die to their former position of seeming favor. In fact, they are spoken of as being in figurative torment. Listen as the rich man speaks:

“Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this blazing fire.” God’s fiery judgment messages proclaimed by Jesus’ disciples are what torment individuals of the rich-man class. They want the disciples to let up on declaring these messages, thus providing them some measure of relief from their torments.

“But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you received in full your good things in your lifetime, but Lazarus correspondingly the injurious things. Now, however, he is having comfort here but you are in anguish. And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you people, so that those wanting to go over from here to you people cannot, neither may people cross over from there to us.’”

How just and appropriate that such a dramatic reversal take place between the Lazarus class and the rich man class! The change in conditions is accomplished a few months later at Pentecost 33 C.E., when the old Law covenant is replaced by the new covenant. It then becomes unmistakably clear that the disciples are favored by God, not the Pharisees and other religious leaders. The “great chasm” that separates the symbolic rich man from Jesus’ disciples therefore represents God’s unchangeable, righteous judgment.

The “purple and linen” in which the rich man was decked out were comparable to garb worn only by princes, nobles, and priests. (Es 8:15; Ge 41:42; Ex 28:4, 5) They were very costly. Hades, where this rich man is said to have gone, is the common grave of dead mankind. That it cannot be concluded from this parable that Hades itself is a place of blazing fire is made clear at Revelation 20:14, where death and Hades are described as being hurled into “the lake of fire.” The death of the rich man and his being in Hades must therefore be figurative, figurative death being mentioned elsewhere in the Scriptures. (Lu 9:60; Col 2:13; 1Ti 5:6) So the fiery torment was experienced while he was figuratively dead but actually alive as a human. Fire is used in God’s Word to describe his fiery judgment messages (Jer 5:14; 23:29), and the work done by God’s prophets in declaring his judgments is said to ‘torment’ those who oppose God and his servants.—Re 11:7, 10.

Lazarus is a Grecianized form of the Hebrew name Eleazar, which means “God Has Helped.” The dogs that licked his sores were apparently scavengers that roamed the streets and were viewed as unclean. Lazarus’ being in the bosom position of Abraham indicates that he was in a position of favor (compare Joh 1:18), this figure of speech being drawn from the practice of reclining at meals in such a way that one could lean back on the bosom of a friend.—Joh 13:23-25.