jehovah witnesses and the nwt AND MICHAEL THE ARCANGEL?

There are over 5,300 (5,309 to be exact) existing manuscripts (hand-copied document) of the Holy Scriptures. http://scholar.google.com/ Some of these manuscripts contain a large portion of scripture, while other are fragments. Greek texts from which all New Testament translations are derived: from 2 source

1.The Majority Texts (Textus Receptus), majority (95% or more) of existing manuscripts support this reading and

2.The Minority Texts only 5% (Westcott and Hort Greek Text who based primarily on the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Vaticanus in their works).of existing manuscripts, including Alexandrian Codex, Parisian Codex, and Codex Bezae.

We dint have the NT for use until 1500 years after Jesus. Pope Damasus assembled the first list of books of the Bible at the Roman Council in 382 A.D. He commissioned St. Jerome to translate the original Greek and Hebrew texts into Latin, which became known as the Latin Vulgate The completed verification with the Latin Vulgate was not complete until 1752 AD.

The first King James Version was not published until 1611 and not to mention The Bible was only made available in general to people to get copies until after 1611 AD.

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An irreconcilable conflict

If the Greek text published by the Watch Tower Society is truly inspired by Jehovah and therefore absolutely reliable, then the correct word in these 237 Christian Scripture “Jehovah” passages in the New World Translation is Kyrios. Generally, Kyrios is translated as Lord, and would be a reference to Jesus. (This is the preferred choice of the New World Translation in 406 cases.) On the other hand, the New World Translation uses the divine name Jehovah in these same 237 instances. If Jehovah is indeed the word used by the inspired Christian writers, then the Greek text is in error.

Conflict in NWT...

"Jesus Christ, whom we understand from the Scriptures to be Michael the archangel"

(The Watchtower, February 15, 1979, p. 31)http://www.thisisyourbible.com/index.php?page=ques...

The Watchtower Society New World Translation (NWT) mentions Michael five times as:

1) "one of the foremost princes" (Dan. 10:13);

2) "the prince of [Daniel’s] people" (Dan. 10:21);

3) "the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of [Daniel’s] people" (Dan. 12:1);

4) "the archangel" who "had a difference with the devil and was disputingabout Moses’ body" but "did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms" (Jude 9); and

5) a participant in heavenly conflict when "Michael and his angels battled with the dragon" (Rev. 12:7).

Which Scriptures did The Watchtower, February 15, 1979, p. 31 refer to????

Rather than being merely "one of the foremost princes," Jesus Christ is "Lord of lords and King of kings" (Rev. 17:14, NWT) and is "far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in this system of things, but also in that to come" (Ephesians 1:21, NWT ). And, unlike "Michael who did not dare condemn the Devil with insulting words, but said, ‘The Lord rebuke you!’" (Jude 9, Today’s English Version), Jesus Christ displayed His authority over the devil when He freely commanded him, "Go away, Satan!" (Matthew 4:10, NWT).

In arguing that Jesus is Michael the archangel, the Watchtower Society also points to another verse that does not use the name Michael but says that "the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet . . " (1 Thessalonians 4:16, NWT). However, the expression "with an archangel’s voice" simply means that the archangel, like God’s trumpet, will herald the coming of the Lord, not that the Lord is an archangel.

http://www.thewordout.net/pages/page.asp?page_id=5...

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Then we have the issues of using the Bible works by NWT...

The Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society [Corporation] accused The Catholic Church being a deviated or even apostate yet they use Latin Vulgate in their teaching and NWT.

The Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society [Corporation] is the only body that claims authority to interpret Scripture. In other words mean any Scriptural passage is viewed as the last word .( thus Discourage independent thinking as evident shown here by some of the answers post.)

This is in direct opposition of Paul's admonition to Timothy, That include you and me to study to show yourself approved of God. This admonition, found in 2 Timothy 2:15, is a clear instruction from God to each of His individual children in the Body of Christ to use independent thinking to search the Scriptures daily to see if the things they are being taught line up with His Word.

Edit: Reference

You asked

WHY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FOOTNOTE, IT SHOWS THAT THE LORD THAT PAUL IS SPEAKING OF IS 'LORD JEHOVAH'?ARE THEY SAYING THAT JEHOVAH IS MICHAEL, JEHOVAH AND JESUS ARE THE SAME PERSON OR ALL 3 ARE THE SAME?

The answer is absolutely not. They are nit saying that Jehovah is Michael. They are just pointing out that different translations have referred to the Lord as Jehovah in that text. The footnotes shows a lot of variations from many different Bibles and manuscripts. The footnote just shows what others have done. The context is what is important in determining the correct rendering. Not just the context of the verse of chapter but the context of ALL the writings.

As a JW I agree that there is NO direct text that proves that Jesus is Michael, however ALL THE EVIDENCE points to it. If Jesus is not Michael it makes no difference to one salvation if they believe it or not The identity of Michael is ONLY AN EXPLANATION not a 100% Biblical truth, but an extremely good and feasible explanation.

When Daniel wrote "ONE OF THE FOREMOST PRINCES" But he was the arch (first) angel - The word angel meaning messenger - There was no CHRIST. The Christ was STILL TO COME. The word Christ means anointed one. Jesus was not anointed when Daniel wrote those words. He was a high ranking messenger (angel) of God. He became the Christ when he was baptized. He gained all authority AFTER he died faithful to his commission.

The ORG used MORE than the vulgate. They used many different Bibles and manuscripts Look at the beginning of the NWT study Bible and the various footnotes to see that they referred to a whole host of ancient texts.

The NWT is not perfect NO bible in existence today is perfect but the NWT is one of the best English versions available. The mistakes in the NWT are small and minor. Not like many other Bibles that wrongly render John 1:1

EDIT

First you need to update your definition of evidence You said " ALL THE EVIDENCE -- EVIDENCE- MEANING -- WITHOUT DOUBT," Here is what evidence means

"Evidence, broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion. This support may be strong or weak" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence

A lot of what the "org" publishes is information to " support of an assertion"

You said " ALL THE EVIDENCE -- EVIDENCE- MEANING -- WITHOUT DOUBT," No read what I said carefully "however all the evidence POINTS to it." The available evidence POINTS to the identity of Michael as Jesus. Even in a court of law evidence can be wrong or misinterpreted. If new evidence comes to light in a law court it can change where the evidence point

You asked "pease tell me why is it that you will be disfellowshiped if you do not agree with that EXPLANATION ."

I have not been neither will I be dissfellowshioped for not agreeing with an explanation. It is attitude that gets one disfellowshipoed not words or action. If Jesus has the name Michael agin what of it. He is still the same person.When I pray I just say "through your son"

There are aspects of what the "org" teaches that I do not accept. However when I talk about them I never say I accept or do not accept, I say the current understanding (or evidence) indicate (or shows or point to) such and such. Why do I do that? To follow the Bibles council of 1 Corinthians 1:10 to "speak in agreement that there should be no divisions among you"

Where I disagree with the GB does not necessarily make them wrong and nme right, or visa versa. As in the first century the followers of Jesus underwent several changes in thought and teaching, and these people had INSPIRED men among them.

How are is the "org" the mouth piece of God? by being the only group that is spreading the message Jesus spread, the Good News of the Kingdom in all the earth, and teaching the Biblical truths of just who God is (no Trinity) that Jesus ( Michael ) was created, that the holy spirit is not a person, no hellfire, no immortall soul, and what Gods original purpose is for the earth and mankind and how that has not changed etc.

In 1966 when an updated chronology was presented Fed Franze said "you can take it or leave it" and that is what I do. If I can not fully accept a point I will not believe it but I will not try to cause a division by proclaiming I am right and the "org" is wrong.

email me if you really want answers

Let's call St Augustine, THE Theologian of all times about God the Holy Trinity to address that Jesus is true God and True Man, Yet ONE:

Book 1 Chapter 6.— That the Son is Very God, of the Same Substance with the Father.

A: Not Only the Father, But the Trinity, is Affirmed to Be Immortal. All Things are Not from the Father Alone, But Also from the Son. That the Holy Spirit is Very God, Equal with the Father and the Son.

1. Those who said that Jesus Christ is not God, or not very God;

2. or not with the Father the One and Only God,

3. or not truly immortal because changeable

4. 1 >3 are proved wrong by the most plain and unanimous voice of John 1:

a. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word is God.

b. We take it plain that the Word of God to be the only Son of God

c. Whom afterward said: And the word was made flesh and dwelt among us

5. Herein declared, not only that he is God, but also of the same substance with the Father;

a. Because after saying, And the Word was God,

b. It is also said, the same was in the beginning with God: all things were made by Him

c. And without Him, was not anything made: Not simply all things, but only all things that were MADE

d. That is the whole creature.

e. It appears clearly that He Himself was not made, “by whom all things were made.”

f. And if he was not made, then He is not a creature

g. But if He is not a creature, then He is of the same substance with the Father.

h. For all substance that is not God is creature, and all that is not a creature is God

i. If the Son is not of same substance of the Father, then he is a substance that was made

j. And if He is a substance that was made, then all things were not made by Him

k. But all things were made by Him, therefore He is of one and same substance with the Father.

l. And so, He is not only God, but also VERY GOD.

B: All Things are Not from the Father Alone, But Also from the Son.

For of Him, and thru Him, and in Him, all things

a. Of Him, that is of the Father

b. Through Him, thru the Son

c. In Him, in the HS;

d. It is manifest that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit is one God, inasmuch as the words continue in the singular number. :To whom be glory for ever.”

If you have the patience and read the sermon, it will personify the roles of God the Holy Trinity with 3 divine persons. Pax

Your question does have a small bit of merit. At the same time it reminds me of an occasion when Jesus was using some obtuse language. The purpose? To get people who were following him to reveal their true heart condition.

This account is in John 6:27-65

You might read again this part of the Bible. The message was so disturbing many disciples left Jesus. They went away, convinced he could not be the messiah. So Jesus thinned the herd.

The speech also disturbed the apostle Peter greatly.. In fact Jesus asked Peter if he was going back to the world as well. Do you recall Peter's answer to Jesus question?

68 Simon Peter+ answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to?+ You have sayings of everlasting life;+ 69 and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Unlike Peter who waited to find out the facts, you decided to imitate the disciples that left. You like them went back to the world. But unlike those who went away you have decided to attack. Why? What is your purpose? Is it to collect JWs to follow you? Have you become a "messiah". yourself?

If that is your aim, no this, there is no way back when you see the judgement coming. What will you do then? Where will you go? There is no place of safety.

And FYI there is a reasonable answer. The footnote could need correcting. But you chose not to wait.

Well, you know God's word is not bound, right? Not by apostates

If you look at Israel, God sent prophets to apostates. But,

Now you do know trumpets are figurative ? There is no trumpets in Heaven. right?

Its just a command? Did the dead rise up on the trumpet blast or hearing Jesus voice?

Who gave Jesus the command to go ahead? Since Jesus is waiting at God's right hand till God puts all his enemies under his footstool?

http://biblehub.com/1_thessalonians/4-16.htm

Evidently, the Lord at 1 Thes 4:16-17 is Jesus. So "Jehovah" appearing at the footnotes for those 2 verses, 16-17, are mistakes to be corrected in the near future.

Footnotes are more subject to mistakes because they´re out of the main text.

The New World Translation Bible is an impossibility... The people on the NWT Bible committee did not have the skills to actually translate the Bible - none of them were literate in Hebrew and only one person sort of knew a little Greek.

They probably just took a King James and inserted their own doctrine into it.

With respect, it appears that you've been overloaded with apostate rubbish from deceitful sites whose sole aim is to discredit our beliefs. You won't find anything good said about us on there. Do you really think that we're gullible and hateful? If you do, then I suggest actually getting to know some of us. We're certainly different than those sites paint us, not judgemental & gullible at all. In fact, because of holy spirit we've been blessed with being knowledgable about the scriptures, not on our own merit but to the praise of Jehovah who saw fit to bless us.

We're nothing more than dust and share the Bible message with people. That is required of us. Our motives are pure and born from love for Jehovah & love for people (we want to save lives, that is our motivation)

With that in mind, do you really think we deserve to be ranted at & told lies about?

Btw, we can read with, mix with, & talk with people who are non-Jehovah's Witnesses..... See how deceitful propaganda is destructive? Don't be in a hurry to believe any old rubbish about us, it can stop you listening to a life-saving message that Satan hates people listening to

2 Corinthians 4:3,4

(My brothers answered your heading question well, and I addressed your additional comments, namely the mistaken assumption that we cannot read or consult with non-Jehovah's Witnesses)

The bible says in Daniel 12:1 that Michael the Archangel will bring a great tribulation and will resurrect people in the end´s times.

Only Jesús Christ in the NT is the one we see doing that kind of things describe in Daniel 12:1 ...besides the NT says Jesús or The Lord as Apostle Paul in several place in his 14 letters called Jesús and God the father to Jehovah has a voice of archangel in 1 Thesalonians 4:16...Why he has a voice of Archangel if he is not the Archangel

In Revelation 10:1-3 describe a powerful angel that fit in many details with Jesús.

Jesús is the human name given to the first heavenly Son of God almighty Jehovah...the Angel of the covenant according to Malachi 3:1

Daniel 12:1 12 “And during that time Mi′cha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people. And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, every one who is found written down in the book.

2 And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life and those to reproaches [and] to indefinitely lasting abhorrence.

In Malachi 3:1 the Messenger of the covenant Or ANGEL of the covenant cause the word used in the Greek original manuscript is AGGELOS

Here is how the trinity works…..

Heavenly Truth:

God = the son (jesus) + Father + Holly spirit………….One God not three Gods

God : the son (jesus) - Luke 1:35, John 3:16, 1 John 5:20 (see names of God below)

defines individual personality of the SON (Jesus) - God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16 ). He is the savior.

God: the father - 2 corinthians 6:18, Romans 8:15, 1 John 3:1 (See names of God below)

Defines the individual personality of the father - All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away (John 6:37). He does the calling.

God: the Holy spirit – Matthew 3: 16-17, Acts 5: 3-4, Romans: 16-17 (see names of God below)

Defines the individual personality of the holy spirit - But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. (john 16:13)

One in essence.... all co-equal (one no more important that the other)…each with a specific job to do (individual personality)…all need to agree in order to get the job done.

Earthly example (so that you may understand):

US government = Legistrative branch + executive branch + judicial branch……..One US Governments not three US governments.

US government: legistrative branch (responsibilities of the legistrative branch define its personality)

US government: executive branch (responsibilities of the executive branch define its personality)

US government: Judicial branch (Responsibilities of the judicial branch define its personiality)

The bible does teach the truth of the trinity..if you can answer yes to any of these questions with a yes answer, then maybe it isn’t true?

1. Can the US do something God can’t do…?

2. Is not all things possible with God?

3. Is God not the creator of all things?

Another example of a triune existence…humans are said in scripture to exist in the following components.

Body…. world consciousness (the body has its function that define its personality)

Soul…..self-consciousness (The soul has its functions that define its personality)

Spirit…..God consciousness (The spirit has its functions that define its personality)

I Thessalonians 5: 23 -- And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto [at] the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Genesis 2: 7 -- And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground ... (body)

Genesis 2: 7 -- And the Lord God formed man [man's body] of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Soul)

Genesis 1: 27 -- So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Spirit)

Verses where Jesus is said to be God, just 4 verses here do you need more….?

Luke 4:12: Jesus answered, "It is said: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test

Matthew 4-7: Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

Titus 1:3: It is by the command of God our Savior that I have been entrusted with

John 20:28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Mark 2: 1-12, mark 14: 60-62, Luke 22: 67 – 70, John 18:33-37, John 10:30, John 14:9, John 14:10, Revelation 19:16

Names of God (God goes by many names to many to list here):

http://smilegodlovesyou.org/names.html