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The Roman Catholic Church has never ruled on Swedish Lutheran orders could they be valid?
“In 1524, Pope Clement VII, in Rome, consecrated Petrus Magni bishop. Petrus Magni returned to Sweden as bishop of Västerås. In his turn, Petrus Magni, who was one of the last Catholic bishops in Sweden, consecrated Laurentius Petri bishop in 1531 and Laurentius Petri became the first Swedish Lutheran archbishop. Abracadabra! The apostolic succession continued in Sweden all the way up to now.”
Looking for RCC opinions. If yes or no, why?
@great gig- That makes sense, but then the Orthodox ordination would have to be invalid right? I mean if you are Roman Catholic then you believe that the Orthodox in fact separated from the Church?
Understood great gig-I am not sure I understand what you mean by 'armed schism" but I agree that the theological differences are slightly larger with the Lutherans and the RCC as opposed to the Orthodox. However, as western Christians we actually agree with some Catholic doctrines that the Orthodox deny. Filioque, use of statues, St. Augustine and St. Anselm being great western fathers, Original sin etc.
@illuminator- So when the 4 Orthodox bishops left the Pope of Rome their offices became invalid?
BTW..If you are a Roman Catholic and you take your faith seriously then calling the Bishop of Rome the "first among equals" with a mere Primacy of "honor" (same as saying no primacy at all) is not a small or insignificant difference. Its huge!
@Bruno-To be honest Rome's "opinion" is just that, an "opinion" but I agree with you nonetheless..
@me-Pope Benedict actually wanted to bring the augsburg Confession into the RCC making it a valid document. Y9u don't know what we believe and it is ignorance to say the Orthodox and RcC have small differences. Know educated theologian either RCC or Orthodox agrees with you.
7 Answers
- MELv 57 years agoFavorite Answer
They are invalid due to them straying so far from doctrine . Eastern Orthodox didn't stray too far, so theres are valid but illicit.
Edit: I was Orthodox so I know what I'm talking about. EO has been stuck since the schism due to being unable to call a council due to their being no Pope for them to open it as Eastern Canon Law requires, plus the whole disunity with the patriarchs and rebellion by the other patriarchs to Bartholomew.
As for the Augsburg Confession, you are referring to the progressive Priest Ratzinger during his progressive phase and not the Orthodox Benedict. If that was the case he would have considered it in his discussions with Conservative Lutherans over a possible Lutheran Use.
- 7 years ago
If someone is ordained and then leaves the Church, the ordination is invalid by way of schism.
Catholics and orthodox are a special case. There has always been a drive for union. There is theological difference but it is small.
I am a Byzantine rite Catholic. We celebrate the same liturgy as the orthodox yet we are Catholic. This is referred to as the fullness of the Catholic church. Various national differences in ritual but perfect uniformity of faith.
The difference been the schism is that one was an armed schism. The orthodox have never done this.
- 7 years ago
The question of the validity of Church of Sweden orders would now revert to the ordinal as used over the years and now by the Church of Sweden. If it has the same defects as the Anglican ordinal, the their priests and bishops would not be validly ordained.
And while I am not sure, have they started attempting to "ordain" women to these orders? That would automatically be invalid for those women and anyone the women ordained. A woman may never in actuality and validity become a priest or bishop.
- IlluminatorLv 77 years ago
Laurentius Petri left the Church when he became a Lutheran. His office became invalid. No bishop can succeed from an invalid bishop. It's a no brainer.
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- Emile LeveskaLv 47 years ago
Swedish Churches are Protestant and thus part of the unity of Christianity.