thinking of cross breeding westie poodle for improved genetic health?

oh right and what qualifications do you have or how much do you understand genetics and what health screening have you had on the westie and the poodle to know that you will get improved health. Oh and that means studying each dog's parents and grandparents also as health issues can skip a generation or two.. but then you'd know that if you can make the basic claim that you can improve the genetic health.

Now why do I think you are just another byb designer dog breeder trying to cover it up under the guise of someone that actually knows what they are doing.

The extremely knowledgeable person who first tried it with the labrador / poodle and called it a stupid labradoodle never succeeded and bitterly regrets the pandora's box he has opened.

Of course you are ...... and I bet you won't be giving the results away FOR NOTHING !!!

Fact is putting two breeds together, breeds that have been developed over years and many generations for a specific purpose, be it herding, hunting, guarding or just as a pet, is just plain irresponsible.

'For improved genetic health'. How do you support that idea when fact is you most probably won't even be testing either parent for the problems there are in their breeds that need checking BEFORE mating?

This is putting my BP up enough so suffice to say read the answers you already have, especially 'leaving genetics to those breeders who know exactly what they are doing' (Jojo). This says it all.

ps Always remember too that every time a b itch is put in whelp, her life is at risk.

When you cross two breeds you can add MORE and NEW genetic problems from the second breed into the first one.

If the dogs are not genetically tested for the problems within their own breeds, then you will surely introduce added problems into the resulting puppies.

I can tell from your question that you do not have any grasp on the genetic problems within the two breeds, nor how to reduce them in resulting puppies... you can not do away with genetic conditions by adding more possible problems into the mix.

You need to identify the problems within the dog(s) and then breed them out by not using dogs that have these conditions to produce puppies. You eliminate genetic problems by NOT BREEDING dogs - not by mixing up the bloodlines with others and introducing more possible defects in the resulting puppies.

Most of the people that answered you here are excellent breeders and do not breed "designer" dogs. Anyone that breeds mixed breeds is no better than a puppy miller as there is no way to trace backgrounds to find out the health status of the lines in the mixed breed the own and want to breed. Your mutt may not even be the mix you think it is.

That's a load of crap. You're thinking of carelessly breeding a litter of mix breed pups and hoping to sell them for a fortune as a designer breed. Be a better person than a backyard breeder because that's what you'll be..

WRONG

Mixed breeding does not produce healthy genetics. What produces healthy genetics is breeding genetically healthy dogs. If you just randomly throw together two dogs and not know the genetic health of the female and male, as well as their parents and their grandparents, then you have ZERO knowledge of the outcome of the genetic health of any puppies.

Well stop "thinking" and get your dog neutered.

Leave genetics to those breeders who know exactly what they are doing.

How about you tell us what you think a gene is? If you get the answer even half right I will be shocked.

● "Thinking of cross breeding westie poodle for improved genetic health?

Are you REALLY?

I haven't noticed you in the genetics groups I belong to.

#1: How much do YOU know about the genetic health vs risks of THAT Poodle's nearest 126 ancestors?

#2: How much do YOU know about the genetic health vs risks of THAT Westie's nearest 126 ancestors?

Judging by your inability to punctuate either breed's NAME correctly, I doubt you know anything worthwhile about either breed.

#3: And what FUNCTIONS/tasks do you consider that your "Weedle" or "Poostie" litter will perform superbly?

As you chose to NOT answer the questions raised by [Lorraine], I don't expect any answers from you - but if you choose to surprise me, do so as an UPDATE to your question, so that it's out in the open for everyone to notice.

Alan C wrote to [Loraine]:

● "if you were so smart you would realise that hip problems have been bred into tat breed by so called breeders"

If YOU were ADEQUATELY AWARE, you would know that dinosaur fossils reveal that THEY had Hip Dysplasia. That was 232 million years before there were humans, and almost 234 million years before there were dogs, let alone humans being dog-breeders.So don't naively blame dog-breeders for HD,

I have no idea what "tat breed" might be. People who seek credibility have to WORK at establishing knowledge & literacy plus demonstrate enough self-pride to CHECK their work before publishing it.

▫ If you were genetically aware re HD and ED, you would know that at present there is NO WAY to avoid them. I've done pretty well avoiding HD, my last known case being born in 1983, and NOT deliberate on my part - my Ciwa sneakily taught her son the facts of life at the start of her season, and by the time I realised that she'd been mated before I separated them she was 6 weeks pregnant. Her dam was one I would NEVER deliberately in-breed on, although I happily did something like a 4:3 or 5:4 line breeding on her to produce my last 2 litters.

But xrays can NOT detect solo recessive alleles - only the effect of a homozygous pair of recessives, so we NEED DNA identification. On 31 March 2008 the Hannover Veterinary University claimed to have identified the main gene for HD, but the only report I've seen since suggests that there is a LONG way to go before all the alleles involved are identified and a screening test available to ensure that no CAREFUL breeder need ever again produce HD (but it will take much longer before we no longer need to produce unaffected "carriers").

Alan C wrote to [GreyhoundAdopter]:

● "guess that you are overlooking hybrid vigour"

For a VERY good reason. All breeds of Canis lupus are the SAME SPECIES, so cross-breeds and mongrels are NOT hybrids, any more than crossing a red rose with a white rose is a hybrid. Despite the ignorance common in Y!A, nor is a coyote x dog or coyote x wolf or dog x wolf a hybrid. Get your VOCABULARY right, then gradually get your concepts right. If you could achieve it, a badger x Dachshund WOULD be a hybrid.

An out-cross DOES slightly reduce the risk of some genes being doubled up on, but not to anywhere near the extent that con-artists tell their naive customers and you naively believe.

Alan C wrote to [Jojo]:

● "would you be one of those breeders that sp closely bred alsations that they inherited severe hip problems?"

As [MacBryan] asked: What are "alsations"?

Not to mention "sp closely"?

You show your under-educated British status. NZKC got rid of Alsatians on 26.7.1949. It took The KC (UK) until July 1977 to relegate that word to a bracket in "German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian)" - and it knew that Brits have trouble learning words, so it wasn't until 12 October 2010 that it got rid of the bracket and used just the translation of the CORRECT name for the breed!

Had you taken the trouble to CHECK before attempting to insult her, you would see that [Jojo] is a trainer, not a breeder. I'm glad that my ancestors (I'm ¼ Scottish, ¼ Welsh, ¼ English, ¼ Tasmanian Devil) got out of the UK in the 1860s - but that DID leave a depleted gene-pool in Auld Blighty.

Alan C wrote in "response" to [MacBryan]'s question:

● "you are not worthy of the space you take presumptuous twerp"

It takes one to know one - and it takes a very RUDE one to attempt to insult an answerer instead of honestly admitting his own careless ignorance.

Alan C wrote to [Marianne] in his Comments below [Verulam]'s answer:

● "Marianne read how presumptions about myself and then question why I have responded in the manner I have"

Your "read how presumptions about myself" is incomprehensible, although my 30 years of reading written work produced by pre-teens suggest that your "how" MIGHT translate as "her". But from your "then" onwards has clear answers: (1)You don't know enough to be polite to people who have EXPERIENCE, (2) you are too stubborn to admit that you have made errors, and - like those pre-teen children - you (3) don't have an adequately accurate vocabulary. Should I also mention the laziness that doesn't bother to CHECK your typing before posting it, and so makes your attempts at communication even more confused?

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King Les The Lofty - first pup in 1950; GSD breeder & trainer as of 1968