Why is it wrong to murder someone? Is it wrong because of the pain it causes them? If they are killed quickly?

There are 2 driving forces behind something being declared a crime.

1. The most basic is revenge. By providing a legal framework for crimes it takes away much of the unfairness involved in retribution an individual may face for his illegal actions from the victim or those who care for that victim.

2. Self-preservation is kept in mind by others who have not been a victim of the crime but want to deter criminals from perpetrating that crime on them.

The reason the second point does not factor into the consideration of abortion is obvious in that no one involved in the creation of laws fears that they will be aborted. So there is no impetus from that direction to protect the unborn.

For the first point both abortion and murder are equal in that the victim has no ability to exact revenge but the crux of the entire conflict between pro-life and pro-choice hinges on who cares for the victim.

The pro-choice contingent balance this against the injuries caused by the birth of the child. In the case where the mother's life is at risk the injuries are obvious and it is easier to find people who will support the option for abortion in that case.

As an unborn child has had no chance to form any social bonds the segment of the population that can identify with and which cares for them is much smaller than the group who has bonded with people who have been born.

In the case of rape or incest the injury is less obvious and the split widens as the support starts to shift to those who value the life of the child of the psychological damage that could be caused to the mother by being forced to bear that child.

And as the injury becomes one that fewer people care about the gap widens further. Giving birth takes it's toll on a woman no matter the circumstances but as the toll lessens the sympathy for that woman decreases as the weight of popular opinion goes towards the unborn child.

You do your cause a disservice by referring to those who are pro-choice as being pro-abortion. People who are pro-choice are not trying to force people who do not want to have abortions to have them. They want a person to be able to make that decision for themselves.

By referring to pro-choice supporters in that manner you show either contempt for or ignorance of your opponents. Neither of those is conducive to a true open dialog that will sway the opinion of anyone you are trying to convice to change. And instead of making any progress it quickly turns into an emotional shouting match leaving neither side any more enlightened or likely to be swayed.

I myself am pro-choice, I have never nor would I ever take actions that I thought would result in an abortion nor would I ever encourage someone to do so. Yet I do not believe that I have the right to deny that choice to someone else. I acknolwledge that I am not in a position to judge the harm that could be done by being forced to carry a child to term and therefore I feel no entitlement to judge that situation.

I will not argue your stance on Iraq but in regards to your reference to the death penalty:

While I do support the death penalty in certain circumstances I do not claim that the killing of a secured prisoner can be done in self-defense. The simple truth is that any prisoner can be secured in a manner which will not threaten the life of any innocent person. It may be expensive but anyone who truly valued human life over his own money would not hesitate to support life incarceration over the death penalty.

I openly admit that there are some criminals who's life I do not value enough to want to support them and would never try to deceive myself or others into thinking that I act for the safety of other people when in truth I believe that a criminal has forfeited their right to live through their own criminal acts.

I will say what I'm sure you have heard before. If you don't want one then don't have one. It is unfortunate that maybe some people have abused the sytem and used this as a form of Birth Control, however what would you say to the 16 year old girl who's Mother died and she live's with her Father that she barely know's and he impregnates her. She is terrified of going to the school because the system's foster program is herrendous and she's terrified. Should she have her Father's Baby!?

What about the woman who was raped but in her culture if she is not a virgin when she marrie's she shames the whole family. She is no pregnant. She knows even though she did nothing wrong that she will be disowned. Is it your right to tell her that she must endure the horrendous road of losing everyone in her life and having a child from a man that raped her? It is what it is!

Two hundred years ago this was a family affair that was decided upon by the Woman and her family if she so choosed. Why is it that in this day and age YOU feel you should be able to judge for her.

You know recently they have found that some women and men have either more testosterone or female hormones. So a Woman recently e-mailed me because she was told that her testosterone level is really high for a woman and it's possible she should be a man. She is having a hard time with this.

If she become's a man is she killing the woman Society views her as. Is it your choice as to what sex she decide's to be?

I wish people would worry about making the world a better place by jumping on someone else's bandwagon. Do you have any new arguments that would help humanity like Global Warming? Minimum Wage? Health Care? There are thousand's of other thing's this world face's on a daily basis yet you cowardly choose the easiest to attack because your not really trying to help the world. Your trying to help yourself by belittling women and their veiws and choices. I'd love to know what mistake's you've made in your past and how you rectified them. Because if rectifying mistake's weren't an option then you probably wouldn't be sitting behind a computer with internet and the freedom of speech.

I hope you have a great day and please be original and think of something we can all work on together to make the world a better place.

'-)

The problem I have with this question is this: Why would murder be any different if you cause them pain or let them have a quick death? They not going to be alive once you murder them, so as you can guess it wouldn't matter if you caused them pain they're going to die anyways. Now why is it wrong? Because that's doing something that could ruin the survival of the species that would end the human race if it was okay to murder everyone. Now why do people murder? Stress, chemicals, survival, and etc. Everyone murders for a different reason. Do I think it's wrong to kill someone? Let me answer your question with another: Is okay for us to murder something that isn't human? Most of the time people will answer it depends, but let's say that this animal was a food source or that this animal was going to attack you, or if this animal wasn't healthy anymore, so let's put it out of it's misery. My theory is that eventually murder is going to become acceptable again... It's a never ending cycle murder becomes okay then it's wrong then it's okay. I believe if we can kill animals without blinking an eye than why can't we kill humans? Do I think murder is wrong answering with a straight up question: No. Eventually the earth will be broke out into wars, murder, overpopulation... Murdering someone would be nothing; like slaughtering a beast that has the same intellectual level as us.

Murder is against the law because our society has formed laws against it. The same with most legislation, which is based on the morality of the majority.

Abortion is a different matter. It was legalized, not through majority approval, or State approval, but through judicial legislation.

Most of us would be screaming if the Court decided to legalize murder through judicial legislation. And it's why many of us are screaming now, about Roe v. Wade.

This matter can be settled, simply by sending the issue to the States, where the Constitution put it in the first place.

We allow execution of certain criminals for the good of society. The same reason abortion should be severely restricted, by the way.

And Dullorb, please read my answer, or take some philosophy courses. You are highly misguided about revenge having anything to do with anything.

It is illegal to take a life from the 5th amendment of the Constitution

"{No person} shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law".

This amendment also allows the government exercise capital punishment (execution) of a person based of the requirement that due process was followed.

Now the debate on weather a fetus is a life is where its get sticky.

But I have been the room with my wife twice when the fetuses were 6 weeks old, I heard and saw the heartbeat therefore to me that is life, and wrong to terminate.

But I also agree in the cases of rape or in dangering the life of the mother, terminating the fetus is acceptable.

Killing is a waste of the natural order of life . When one becomes to old to work or pass on knowledge death comes naturally in short order but not before it reminds us of our duty to care for others . This is suppose to be what humanity and civilization are About .

Instead we have warped people who believe in only the strong survive and you must take what you can and defend what you have by the use of force and killing . Protect from future attacks by preventing those you harm from being able to exact revenge . Killing Children is easy and so far only a few people have actively attempted to do what is only right by Killing those who murder in mass numbers on a daily bases . The holocaust of the unborn is going on right in front of us but no one will step up and stop those who reign death upon the lives of these most precious resources of our future well being .

Its like planting a crop and plowing it under before the harvest . Such a waste of energy and resources can not hope to benefit mankind in the long run as he must really on the next generation to care for him in his old age . Soon euthanasia will be approved to eliminate the elderly and when this happens I feel sorry for those people . When this occurs it will be to late . Fascism and the police state will have total control . No other means will be available to choose from . Any decent by people will meet with death and prison . This is part of the past and the future . We jailed our own national guardsmen for protecting our nation from a drug smuggler who testified against them and was granted immunity . Why are you not outraged by this . We have truly become the victims of our own ignorance and complacency . Fat on the excess food we indulge in . Fat on the wealth taken from other nations . Fat on the concept that we are right in all matters . We have become a nation of fat head imbeciles and nothing I see leads me to believe anything good is on the horizon for mankind .

Legally why is it wrong? It deprives an individual of life.

Morally why is it wrong? It depends on your moral values system but universally it is wrong because individuals are not seen as capable to to decide whether or not to take another's life.

In the case of abortion, which is decided based on legal grounds, a fetus is not an individual and it is, therefore not murder.

I appreciate your open-mindedness. Could you explain why many conservatives feel it is morally OK to execute an individual?

Well, since you are open minded, we know that you can't be a "liberal" :)

Murder is wrong because it is taking the life of another human being. It is not yours to take & there is no way to make restitution.