Does this just take the breath right out of you?

I would hope that all of mankind could live the words of the poem INVICTUS by William Earnest Henley. If the world was filled with the people of this description how far could we reach.

I am saddened by that quote. Everyone makes mistakes. We are able to right our wrongs though. I was raised roman catholic and there were times that I really thought that I was an awful, awful person because I did opposite of what I was taught. Some of the teachings I really feel are wrong and it is not fair to put such rules on a person. I felt like everything I did was being written down in a book by god and I was going to be in big trouble some day. I was scared to die because I didn't want to be standing there with others being judged(on judgement day) and others see my life, my wrong doing. I would be embarassed, and to be shamed that way. At least this is the sort of thing that was scared into me everyday in catholic school...Anyway.

I no longer believe a whole lot that was beat into my brain for 20 years. The only thing I have taken with me is "Do unto others......" and god is loving and all forgiving. I feel bad for this person because he/she feels this way. I believe that no matter how bad, we pick our path before we come here and we come here to learn and what better way to learn but to experience. I believe that we all go to the same place no matter how bad or good. There is no hell that we have all been scared with, or no devil for that matter. Maybe I am crazy, but this gets me throught the day and I am no longer afraid to die nor do I feel dirty or like a disappointment to god.

I think a person who has done much wrong in his life will have this kind of repentant heart. Those are the people who are the most grateful to have been forgiven and given a new life. There are many people who find themselves in a life of crime or addiction or perversion and feel dirty and ugly before God. By accepting God's gift of forgiveness and cleansing through Jesus' sacrifice they become a new person and can put away the things that held them prisoners. It may be difficult to understand and seem sad to you, but this person is free of that which bound them. They cling to Jesus like a drowning man to a lifesaver. One never knows what goes on in another person's life.

My heart too...

I'm trying to find a balance between engage and retreat. And as Taliesen says "cause and affect". As challenging as these exercises of answering (and especially ASKING) questions can be, I'm finding that I still let things stick to me.

That is coming to be my greatest challenge lately. To be a part of this world, and not of it (isn't that funny how that haunts?) I thought it was completely a different meaning when inside of the religion but now I interpret it as being able to navigate all this without having the daily onslant throw you.

Last couple of days, I've been stunned as well. Got me right where I hurt the most.

Watched a Martial arts film last night (not my usual choice). I thought I wanted to kick the planet from one end of it's axis to the other, hence the vicarious. THAT didn't help. So, I changed my mind, it just wasn't pretty...

I'm saying that it becomes about you, now. All the lessons learned. Does it go into a painting, a walk in the woods? Do we yell it out? When it sticks, it has to be released. I'm a practical mystic. It's all about application. For me, what comes into our awareness has to be dealt with.

We have to know that it's there, be able to be worldly without attachment. (I'm talking to myself, believe me if you saw my question yesterday you know why this is going the way that it is).

If I become changed, I will chose. NOt the circumstances. Inside of your heart, comes the next step...

Hey Michelle,

This cycle of fear, guilt and shame is learned and can be unlearned. (as you well know) I was taught these things as well at a very young age and I had to work hard as an adult to unlearn this by reading, staying curious, reading some more, looking at many different books on my own and entertaining new ideas, not just accepting those spoon fed to me by my family. Is fear such a good motivator for teaching love?

Peace to you

it is very sad indeed, however without that belief the control factor would be gone and there for the religion would be unuseful. you must remember that the christian baised religions started to help keep control over the masses. without fear the higherarchy could not control the peasents who out numbered them greatly. think of it this way.

how does an abuser get and keep control over their victom(s)?

by making them fear them, by making them believe in there hearts that they desearve no better then what they are getting, by making them believe that they are nothing and would be less then nothing if it wasn't for the abuser.

its the same with this type of religous practice. i'm not saying all christian based religions are this way in fact there are probably very few that are. i'm just pointing out how those that are can be compared to bullies on the playground, abusive people, rapists, and other people who use fear as a tool.

I am a Christian, and I am one of the people that answered that question- I am not the one that you quoted- however, I have to say this- I too am nothing with the love and salvation of Christ. Maybe I would say this same thing but in a little different way- even as a Christian, I can still sin- I give glory to God in all things- what I do not understand why it bothers non-believers so much when we share that without Christ we are lost. Hearts should be broken before God-

Extremely sad, but their life to choose such a path. The problem seems to me to be a lack of understanding that Sin is a creation of man, that the universe (which is far greater than any of us, and more than likely well beyond any of our understanding) is not based on our rather simple and pathetic concepts of right and wrong, but on the principles of cause and effect.

- Esoteric CHRISTIAN Mystic.

Millions of very young children are exposed to this type of thinking, daily, by their ministers and parents. They have barely learned to walk and someone is telling them what a filthy sinner they are! It is heartbreaking.

My sister and her family went this route. One out of four of her children broke away from the church in her late teens. My niece told me that she just couldn't buy all the fear tactics doled out by her minister...going to H**L and all that rot. She just looked around, one day, and said..."This is not for me".

Some people do escape this ignorance and find there way to a more loving God...One who embraces the child with loving kindness...encouraging growth not fear.

We all must find our way and some have mountains to climb in order to find peace and love.

This would be an appropriate point for a counselor to confront the person about that comment. It's unhealthy to live everyday with obsession about a particular aspect of life in the way that person is.