Question about predestination and free will?

wrong.

If you were a serial killer you would have an above average ability to predict the way people would act when confronted with specific behaviors and you would behave in a manner that would aleviate the concerns of people around you.

Therefore you would have a better understanding of how God can predict the actions of people without specifically forcing them to behave in a particular way.

Therefore you are not a serial killer. Just a dolt.

"Let's assume for the sake of argument that I am a serial killer. When I was born, God knew that when I became an adult, I would murder several children. God had the power to (1) keep me from being born or (2) take my life before I murdered someone.

If God is all knowing and all powerful, the blood of my victims is on his hands."

Atheists, remember this the next time you are wondering why God wiped out the world during the flood at the time of Noah. And why God asked the Israelites to wipe out certain civilizations whose collective morality had sunk past the possibility of recovery. etc.

Just because God knows what you are going to do doesn't mean he made you do it. He knew what choices you were going to have and what you would do with each of them, but that's not predestination. It's like every choice you ever had was made into a web, and you're the spider. God can see the entire web, but you can only see the part of the web that's close to you. God also sees where you're going to wind up and which strands you are going to take to get there, but he doesn't pick you up and put you there or force you to take a certain path, he just happens to know where you are going to go. And if God knew you were going to be a serial killer, so to prevent you from murdering children he prevented you from being born, or took your life, he would be interfering with free will, like your parents free will to have children. However, that's not really your question, if what you're saying is a question at all. It's obvious from the condition of the world that God does not prevent serial killers from being born. You can either take this to mean that there is no God, because God would want to protect the rest of his "good" children, or you can take it to mean that the concept of what "free will" means something other than "I can do whatever I want and no one knows what I'm going to do." I know if I walk between a mama bear and her cubs she's going to attack me. So if I walk between her and her cubs, and she attacks me, does that mean that because I knew she would do that she didn't have a choice in the matter? Kind of a weird analogy, but hey. And if you're asking a question, why are you ending with a statement?

God is half of the story, the other half is the Devil. You need to be careful about these topics, because there's another variable to work with here.

Say there is no free will. God controlles every action of everybody, governing the world so that no bad things happen. Everything done through God controlling us, and in the end, everyone reaches heaven continue a perfect life.

There's one big flaw in there. It's that no free will means that the devil had absolutely no power and influence in the world. I know I'm sounding crazy but lets elaborate that. If there was no sin, then there would be no Jesus, no sacrifice on the cross. If there was no sacrifice on the cross, then Where is the basis of christianity? Why would anyone care? If everything was without will, where would be pleasure of heaven be? Where would be pain of Hell be?

It seems that a huge number of the christians who are most in love with God are those who in their past life have sinned the worst. They are the people who got drunk, disrespected, stole, hurt, even murdered. Why do you think they turned out to be christians so in love with God? It's because they know that no matter what they did, God forgave them of everything! they know that their covenant with God is not tampered according to what they have done.

Also in my experience, sin, and bad things glorify God in their own way. Take Joseph in the book of Genesis. His brothers sold him into slavery, and eventually Joseph was second in command across all egypt because God had him interpret Pharaoah's dreams. There's a lot more in that story but im going on as it is.

I could continue to talk about this. Murder especially is a huge debate topic in the christian world, and you almost have to know and understand God before you understand what he does. I can't give that to you right now, because there is spiritual knowlege that nonchristians don't find in themselves. It's weird, and confusing, but that's what it is, and that's why christians don't lose heart in God when questions like these are raised, even when they can't answer them with their own knowlege can't understand.

You don't seem to understand WHY we have free will. Yes, God knows everything...WE DON'T. When each of us come before the judgment seat...we will be able to honestly say that YES...I made that choice.

in your story...the blood of the victims is on the hands of the killer...and stand as a witness to his crimes and his "choices". As for his victims, God Takes care of them too.

This life, this world, is about us. A place to learn, grow, and be tested. See...it really doesn't matter what happens to us in this life...what matters is how we dealt with it. Our Choices, our reactions and actions, are all we have any control over anyway. Will we submit our will to God, and Follow Christ home...or will we be stanch believers that we know more than God, and go our own way. God knows...Now, He is allowing us to figure it out ourselves.

Again...knowledge of the pre-existence helps in understanding all this.

nope, sorry, disagree with that whole statement. How do you determine that if God exists, there is no free will. The idea of free will is being able to choose things and do as you wish. In your example, YOU chose to kill, how is that God's fault, you did the killing, all the time now, no matter what, there is no responsibility laid on the offender, it's always someone elses fault, can't blame God.... YOU made the choice to do what you do, not God, he didn't make you do it, just because he knows what you will do or have done doesn't mean he made you do it....anyways, that's how I see it.

God does not always punish per sin directly. If I go out and sin, He would not strike me dead. If He had killed every sinner before they were born, we would all be dead. And if you made a choice contrary to being a serial killer, God would know that you were going to make that choice long before you made it.

God is not just all powerful and all knowing, He has predestined all things before the foundation of the world.

God' predestination does not exclude human responsibility.

Man has free will to choose good or evil. What man chooses or man's actions shows what God has predestined.

However, God is not the author of sin.

No, the blood is on your hands. That's what free will is all about.

Whatever choices you make or will make God already knows. You still make those choices, there is free will and there is no contradiction.

The government knows guns can kill people. The government can outlaw all guns. The government doesn't so is guilty of all murders committed by guns. See how silly that is.

Just because God knows what you are going to do does not mean that you don't have a choice in the matter. He knows what you will do but does not force you to make that decision.

The entire point of life is to test you and your faith. If you feel that killing people is right then you will make the CHOICE to do so.....

God will never force you to chose one thing over another.

Hence-free will