Is it possible to CHOOSE to believe in something?

Um, first of all thanks for your sweet answer on my God/condemnation question; I have to say I very much admire the path you have chosen and aim to pick and choose bits of all religions to inform my own philosophy, one day - I can't wait to have more time to read, but everything on Buddhism or Buddhist-inspired that I've read has impressed me with its clarity, insight, and presence of mind.

Myself, I don't believe in absolute free will - only the illusion of choice. Those who are lucky enough may reach forms of enlightenment, but they will never have control over the circumstances that brought them there. Since it is not possible to choose who you are born as or where, (I'll put one of those "or at least there's no evidence for it!" disclaimers on, as well) you no more choose anything that happens in your life than you choose whether to be caught in a natural disaster.

Not that I liken life or religion to a natural disaster; just saying, they're equally predictable.

Inside of the illusion of free will, I like to think that I've chosen my sexuality as it better defines who I am; outside of it, I know that things have led me into this awareness of my own feelings, and whether I "chose" to reject or accept them, those feelings would still be a part of me.

I don't mean to sound deterministic; I'm not quite a fatalist until after an event happens. I believe very much _in_ the illusion of choice until an event happens, and then afterwards I believe there was never any choice: it couldn't have happened any other way. That was the way it happened - is that not proof!

While the two seem contradictory, the first helps me use my best judgement (hopefully) and take responsibility, and the second helps me free myself of the past - which is no place for living. Nor can one anticipate the future! My happiest days, as I'm sure you can relate to, is when I remember to be here in the immediate present; mind blank and full of the body's feeling.

I totally concur. To short-circuit your metaphor back to banal reality: the light may be burnt out. Back to the non-physical: we acknowledge subjectivity; all we know is sensation and impression. Reality is, by definition, beyond comprehension.

For one thing, semantic meaning always gets in the way - if we cannot even understand each other, how are we to understand an infinitely more complex universe or any creator - who would then in turn be more complex.

Or, paradoxically, simpler. :-) If you see creation and existence as one.

Sorry, that wasn't intended to be paradoxical. I have my own theories about universe and life and origins - we've always been here; never "something from nothing," but always something.

I'm already long-winded as usual, but consider science: there is a fourth state of matter that only occurs at temperatures near absolute zero. If entropy is real and the universe contracts... then explodes big bang style. Then connects all these dots like a neural network, telling it exactly what has happened since the last explosion and contraction. Infinitely wise and enlightened, but alive more in the same way as a tree.

Could the universe not be a living being with consciousness? Not a conscious *being* but just consciousness itself. Absolutely pure, contains all. Pure enlightenment; no thought; no effort. The universe slightly alters and prepares to explode again into the next round in its development.

This is my belief when I "choose" it. No evidence, I just think it's pretty. It helps me appreciate nature and think: I am a part of that. It is the universe as a cohesive whole that I think of when I think of enlightenment.

And yet!

I am still tied to humankind, as conscious beings. Other conscious beings. Animals, trees! I can't believe that life doesn't feel; that trees don't have some nervous system and react. And I think we all - animals, trees, people, rocks - have the same soul; so how can a single entity go to hell and another to heaven? Our future is inherently shared!

I vary on my animism day to day; I am to hurt nothing but also to survive. It is an endless conflict and epic struggle at which I fail. But! I owe it to the universe to learn.

I think we're built to believe... for the day that we believe in ourselves. I believe scientific evidence and psychological evidence and evolutionary evidence that says it's natural to be that way.

It just doesn't have to be what we _do_ believe. I know that. I hold my beliefs loosely but dearly; they are a fairytale to lull me to sleep at night and dream of Good Works before final peace; a reconnect with some pure atomic consciousness.

The trite answers are indoctrination, socialization, neurology and learning in general for reasons why people believe, why it becomes so integrated into their personality and everything they are: why it helps them overcome adversity and feel better and only strengthens their belief when they undergo privation - because it's the one thing that rewards them, and that makes it desperately rewarding.

Every time I post, it's a novel. Hope there was something of interest!

Peace, love, empathy!

Namaste,

Rob

Edit: wow, intelligent creation, watchmaker/evolution debate right above. Now I feel better about being a long-poster! Haha. I think we both got a little off-topic, there.

Mike, I'd like to say I'm sorry that you feel the need to be one of the "I'm sorry you don't get it" preachers. That really just makes others pity you the way you pity them - or laugh. Normally I try to take it in the spirit that it's intended but after hanging around religious forums a bit lately I have to say I really rolled my eyes this time. Good luck in future! Read up on evolution if you think it's accidental or that mutation involves atomic radiation! I love you guys!

To some extent, yes. If your child says another child pushed them over whilst the other denies it who do you believe? You're choosing to believe one of them over the other - but of course you're choosing it based on evidence and knowledge of their character. If there is no evidence THEN you're choosing based on faith.

However only an idiot believes contrary to the evidence, when there is evidence. If it looks like a fish, smells like a fish and swims like a fish, chances are it's not a donkey. It's not really a choice any more than you choose to believe 2+2=4.

It would be entirely different if you suddenly had some religious experience which gave you a lot more evidence to believe in God; as if you'd found you were blind to the fact the sum was actually 2+2+1=4. Of course there's no garuntee that you were blind to that part at all, or that it exists, or that you'll ever discover that's the way it is.

We all choose to believe in something all the time. Our knowledge about something is rarely if ever perfect. If we waited to turn on a light switch until we had a certainty that all its components were in working order, we'd stay in the dark.

As far as believing in God, there are so many incorrect ideas about God out there and when combined with all the bad things happening, I can fully understand why belief is a challenge.

However, once you gain a better understanding of the purpose of earth life, you suddenly find a great deal of evidence every where you look.

I hate that you had an expierience like that. I'll offer a couple of books that you might find interesting. Mere Chritianity - C.S. Lewis. Simply Christian - N.T. Wright. Both of these are excellent reads and might help you if you are still exploring belief.

Choice is not always easy. Sometimes we choose the wrong things. For example, you come to an intersection and you are supposed to turn left, but everyone tells you to turn right. Also, with the traffic it is easier to turn right. So you turn right. The directions you are reading even told you to turn right. But it is wrong. In other words maybe you should try some other sources. I don't know you or how much you have explored, but I hope your journey is great.

God Bless.

True choices are always taken for granted. For instance you've been on a road for all of life and one day the road forks into 3 sections you can continue straight on the road ahead the road that was given to you the road that leads down where all your family is on and everyone you basically know or you could branch off to a different road one that is not planned and charted one where you have to do for yourself and cut the path for your family to follow and meet new people and ideas. In all the stories we are warned not to stray from the paths we are given do to meet unknow dangers but in truth all paths carry hidden dangers and traps didn't the first person that blazed the trail you where on face the same dangers too but is now known for creating that path which surely went against another path a long time ago? Tue choices are taken for granted because we often miss them in trying to stay with the flow on a path that might not be ours in the first place.

Take this from me, this is a life lesson I learned a long as$ time ago and it's worked wonders for me:

Everything you do in life is based on choices you made, whether 5 minutes ago or 10 years ago. Every single thing that has happened to you so far was because of a choice you made, think about it, you know this to be true.

So yeah, you can choose what you believe in. I was, more or less, raised a catholic. I believed in a supernatural at some point in my life but I CHOSE to give it up to become an atheist. Made life easier not believing in a god. Everyone I know, including my mom and my girlfriend, who is a catholic, respect my choice because absolutely no one can force you what to believe in.

I don't think sexuality is a choice, but religion is. Like any choice you make, you weigh up the evidence, pros and cons and make a conscious decision on that basis. 'Trying' to believe in something doesn't make any sense, because the reason you didn't believe is that you weighed up the evidence and decided it wasn't true. Deep down you knew you had made that decision. I think what you mean is you wanted to believe.

Believing is always a choice. No one simply "tries" to believe, they either do or they don't. Its kinda like being "pregnant", ya either are or you aren't.

When people say they just "can't" believe, its usually because they had unrealistic expectations at one time or another and they feel God "let them down" when what they wanted didn't materialize. We don't come to God to get Him to do what WE want, but to align ourselves with His plans and purposes.

Most of all we come to God to avail ourselves of what He has to offer. He offers a FREE pardon, reconciliation, Peace WITH God as well as the Peace OF God, justification, sanctification, and "all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies" and assurance of our standing with Him thru being SEALED until the day of our redemption by the Holy Spirit Himself.

Awesome promises that are ours thru taking God at His Word.

"Without faith, it is impossible to please God."

www.graceteacher.com

No, deep down a person can't hide their true feelings. They can hide them from the outside world maybe, but they can't hide from themselves. What they can do is CHOOSE to be in denial.

same experience! ;)