Are Americans adopting from countries experiencing their own Baby Scoop Era?

Absolutely, and I think it is disgusting.

And I find it horribly sad that thousands of international adoptees will have an even harder time than US domestic adoptees in finding their families.

I hate all adoption, of course, it is bad enough stealing a child's family, but to add insult to injury stealing a child's country, culture, and often times his/her native language is beyond reprehensible.

As a BSE adoptee who was raised by two loving, wonderful people, I hate to admit that adoption has gotten as ugly as this--but it has. You don't have to spend ten minutes on the internet before you find out that some people simply want what they want when they want it, and as cheaply and quickly as possible, even when "it" is somone else's child.

For instance, I can't imagine how heartless a person would have to be to complain in 2008 about not being able to get a child from Guatemala. Do they not care that some of these infants were actually kidnaped, or do they think that not doing their research will somehow keep them innocent of the crime that "completed" their family? Do they think their child won't find out he or she was stolen and have pyschological problems with that later?

There are right ways and wrong ways to adopt. The fact that you want a child very much is no excuse to do it the wrong way.

Having been hired by an agency 20 years ago and then told to develop an international program in Vietnam, I have some first hand information about this issue, and have written about this several times on Y!A.

Having contacts with U.S. and U. K. business people who work in Vietnam, I was put in touch with an Intermediator there who worked with the orphanages. We got several businesses to dontate fresh chickens (a luxury), coloring books, crayons, shirts, paper and pencils and books by the truckloads. We wanted to support the orphanages while deciding if Vietnamese adoption was a possibility. After the donations were made, the business people would swing by a few days later to see the children. There would be no pencils, no paper, and no protein for the children to eat. We started looking into it more, and decided to have someone go by when the next delivery was donated. What did they see? Employees of the orphanage and their families loading up all the live chilckens and paper, etc. and taking them home. After a deeper look into the Intermediator, we found out that he would walk up to poor women with children and offer them $50 for their child. Hard choice, to sacrifice one, to feed four. But the choice was made. And that is how many children came into care. (I totally nixed the international adoption route and insisted we work only with women we met face to face with. We do not even work with out of town birthmothers. If we cannot provide counseling to a birth mother, and develop a professional relationship over time, we do not work with them. It is the only ethical way to place a child for adoption.)

Now, that being said: Are ALL international adoptions unethical? No. But there is a much greater chance of it! Adoptive parents must be respsonsible for deeply researching the agency, the country, the province in which they are interested in adopting from. How are the children taken into care? What kind of services are they provided? How much support does the agency provide for the kids left at the orphanage? How is it utilized? What kinds of services are available to poor families in this country?

We must stop the "demand" for infants. We do that by considering the adoption of non-infants. We did this 20 years ago when the "demand" was for non-African American infants here in the U. S. More people started adopting African American infants, and now there are waiting lists for ALL race infants here in the U. S.

Yes, poverty "forces" familiies to "lose" their children, but losing a child to adoption still beats losing a child to death.

After reading the "the girls who went away", I have to agree that the baby scoop era and americans adopting from other countries is the same. The bioparents are left with no choice other than adoption.

We did think long and hard about this before adopting from Ethiopia. It seems that the current state of some of these countries is so overwhelming. I wouldn't even know where to begin to "fix" these countries. While these countries are in distress and while people are trying to figure things out, children are currently dying of starvation.

We have supported two different charities to feed the children of Africa for years. Now we have sponsored half the families in our daughter's small village. Meeting our daughters first family helped us to know that she wasn't actually stolen or kidnapped. As you look at the first fathers malnourished body of skin and bones, it is obvious he had no choice as to placing his youngest child for adoption.

We did make a huge effort to make an informed decision when it came to adopting overseas. We did not want to partake in any kidnapping or child abductions in adoption. What do you do when you offer as much as you can financial afford to feed the starving children and still children are dying?

Are American families benefiting off other countries baby scoop era via some international adoptions, yes. The world isn't perfect and there is no black and white answer to this question. I wish i were smart enough to figure out how to end world poverty and starvation. Maybe the next generation will figure this out.

My hope for our daughter is that we can raise to be proud of her original country and culture so that after college she can return to make a difference. My husband and i have also talked about after retirement, spending our days helping families in Ethiopia. To us adoption is a lifetime commitment we have made to our daughter, her first family and their country of origin.

I tried to sincerely and honestly answer your question. If anyone has questions about what i said feel free to email me. Today is a rough one for me. This is the only question i'm answering today and i'll get back to the emails tomorrow. Thanks.

****great question by the way.

I think that is probably just one issue that affects third world countries and adoption. But the fact of the matter is, if there is no source of child welfare in the third world country to protect children, and the parents cannot take care of their children- it shouldn't matter where the adoptive parents come from as long as they can provide what the birthparents want for their children.

Otherwise, these families cross the border into the USA looking for a better life because their countries are so poor.

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Thank you VEE. Especially for taking the time involved in typing up your detailed answer and for sharing your personal experiences.

3 in the 1940's

First of all, I take exception with the statements that people who adopt internationally want a baby, no matter what, and don't care if the baby was stolen. I also take exception to the statements that people adopt internationally because they don't want to deal with birthparents.

Unfortunately, there are illegal practices abound in international adoption and I've said it here, over and over again, that there are some nefarious practices in international adoption and it is critical that adoptive parents do their research.

International adoption CAN be done, ethically and legally. I realize that there are a group of people on this forum that can't grasp this concept. I also believe that many countries are working to change and refine their adoption laws to fight illegal and unethical practices. I should also point out that in many countries, these changes are being proported by the US consulate/embassy in that country.

Bear in mind that for an internationally adopted child to enter the US, the US embassy or consulate must review all of the documentation and issue a visa. If things appear out of order, the consulate is completely within his/her rights to demand additional proof or documentation. It happens quite a bit and this is causing adoption agencies to get their in-country ducks in a row before reaching the consulate.

But I keep coming back to the need for adoptive families to do their research.

If a country typically has only older children ( school age) available for adoption, but one agency says that they have a nine month waiting period for an infant, be suspicious. I take a dim view of adoption agencies that have "birthing centers" in-country and there is plenty of instances where young mothers are paid to place their unborn babies for adoption.

If you know the legal process, requirements, documentation needed, etc, for a country, but your agency says they have some special agreement with the government and you don't have to take those steps, be suspicious!

The burden for this is on the adoptive parents, so doing your research, and understanding how the process is supposed to work is essential.

I believe they are. The problem is compounded by the illegal practices that have led to the "availability" of children who weren't truly available for adoption. Some countries, such as Guatemala, have ended their international adoptions because of this. There are lawsuits taking place because adoptees were kidnapped in their countries and placed for adoption.

These countries are in need of help. But adopting the children isn't going to solve the underlying problems. Ultimately, the problems need to be addressed as these children deserve to grow up in their own countries with their own people.

I Think Adopting Is A Wonderful Thing Because Yes Granted Some Countires Are Forcing But Think Of All The Girls/Women That Dont want Babys Would Rather Have Them In A Home Were The Get Neglected And Beat To Death Or In A Warm Loving Home With Parnets And Other Children To Play With! Ask That Question To Your Self

I agree with Laurie. Especially in places like China, where the government is forcing families to make a horribly inhumane choice (like the movie, "Sophie's Choice"). In other countries, it is the harsh economic realities that most often force adoption on families. When you can't feed you're child, what choice do you have?

But really, that's not what PAP's want to hear. That children are not given up because they are "unwanted", but because the mom, or parents sadly have no other options available. What a dreadful decision to have to make!

American's choosing this route often do so to circumvent the laws that have been established in this country to provide safeguards to children & families (as minimal and as varying as they are).

Sadly, adult humans want what they want. PERIOD. They don't want to hear or believe that corruption happens. And certainly, IF it does, it can't POSSIBLY be attached to THEIR adoption.

And...BTW...what a HORRIBLE thing to say (DQ) and one of THE most PAIN CAUSING, PAINFUL myths to perpetuate! This ridiculous idea that "girls/women that don't want babies". As if there are vast populations of women choosing to relinquish their children simply b/c they don't wish to be bothered. Most often, women "choose" adoption b/c they feel they have NO OTHER OPTION. Or in some cases (as the adoption industry loves to promote), b/c they DO love their child but believe they are incapable of providing for their child.

Why do so many PAP's and others continue to shove this $[-]!+ down our throats at every freakin' opportunity?! I am so beyond hearing that tired ol' carp (sp.* on purpose) I could SCREAM!!!

FCS! PPL, BUY AN F'ING CLUE and stop repeating BS you know nothing about nor are willing to acknowledge.

Yeah...tell me my own mother didn't want me. Then how you believe "adoption is a wonderful thing". Right. Right. You're bloody well right...FI! STFU, take your dolls & go play on another playground. Geez...

ETA: 'Course, I've been working 12-14 hours a day, 7 days a week, have my 2nd flu/cold in 3 weeks. Oh...and dangerous hormonal mood swings at the moment. So, if I'm a little harsh? GET OVER IT! I've held this $[-]!+ in for 48 years. It's about time it say the light of day.

Thanks, Gershom. I needed that! Love ya babe! {{{hugs}}}

Sorry, Gershom...I have to respond..

Vee~I reread my own post, then looked for another "robin" & didn't find one. So I'm a bit confused about your comments to ME?

So, please allow me be clear. I am not against ALL PAP's or AP's. Just those who use international adoption to CIRCUMVENT (that is, to go around) the laws established in the US to protect children from unethical practices. I never said ALL PAP's or AP's do so. And certainly, it doesn't sound as if that was in any way your intention.

Nor am I against adoption. As I wrote, there are 10's of 10,000's of children waiting in foster care for permanent homes. They, too, deserve a shot at a permanent family, at being adopted. ALL children deserve a stable, loving home & family.

I am passionate about adoption being ETHICAL. I am passionate about adoption being CHILD CENTERED, that is, fulfilling the needs of children FIRST (as you have so obviously done!). I am passionate in my sadness for the poverty that exists in countries; that force a mother to make such a horribly sad, harsh decision - to give up a child so the child can live b/c they have NO OTHER OPTIONS available to feed their child. That reality is heartbreaking!

While I have lived below the poverty level as a young mother in the US, I am fully aware that it is NO where near the poverty in a 3rd world country. Poverty was bad enough in the US. I cannot fathom the poverty around the world. It breaks my heart.

I could never express those realities as eloquently as you have done (b/c I haven't lived them). And I most certainly do commend you for choosing to be a parent as you have done. I honor your passion! I truly do! And I thank you from the depth of my heart for sharing your story. Bless you, your children and your entire family.

AND...I stand by what I said about the use of the term "unwanted babies". Not being able to care for a child is a FAR CRY from not wanting your child.

ETA: I'll just add that if anyone ever gets the chance, watch a program called "Siberian Adoption Story" (on the Health Channel when I saw it). It's THESE types of AP's that I take issue with. Who joke sarcastically about having to sell their house to "get this child"..."oh, but we'll love her" ***wink wink***; who seem to have done absolutely NO research about children living in an orphanage (& their special emotional needs) before flying around the world to pick out a child living in one; who make angry statements about how this child better not one day go find her birth mother after "we've spent $35,000 to get her!"; who don't bother to learn a single word of Russian, but say words like 'Stolichnaya' or the name of their hotel to try to "comfort" an upset child who doesn't understand English. The arrogance & audacity - of AMERICANS in a foreign country with little or no respect for that country & it's laws, traditions, values. Makes me feel embarrassed to be American.

NOT like Vee, who so obviously has a full understanding of the country she's adopted from. Not ALL AP's, necessarily. But THOSE AP's. Had I adopted (as I wanted to do growing up), I'd have been just as horrified at other AP's who behave in that manner. And I can't believe any good, loving adopted parent wouldn't cringe watching these people & others like them.

To Mom5grlz {{{hugs}}} YOU are the type of AP I love to see & hear from...(I'll be looking for more from Vee, as well). YOU'RE the kind of mom I wish I'd HAD. : D