Which part of the Hail Mary is idol worship?

I think that there was once a saint who spent 40 days lecturing on the Hail Mary as a valuable means of edifying our souls. I can't recall who it was though, or if it was exactly 40 days or just a week.

Anyway, I'm sure that person could explain it much better than you or I the greatness of this prayer. In my rite, however, the last part "Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death." is different.

"Hail Virgin Mary, Mother of God, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou amoungst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,...for thou hast given birth to Christ, the Saviour and Deliverer of our souls."

Here's more info on the Hail Mary and why Catholics use this prayer alot. (In case anyone wants to know.)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07110b.htm

Hail, full of grace; found in Luke. We call it the angelic salutation.

Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.

The words of Elizabeth under the influence of the Holy Spirit to our Lady, also in the book of Luke.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Even the angel bowed to her, as she was filled with grace from God, so she is holy. She is also the mother of God, we accept that Jesus is God. (Another Catholic Tradition)

Paul told us to pray for one another, the prayers of the righteous avails much. God is the God of the living, not the dead. Mary is alive and reigning as queen of heaven. John saw her there in the Apocalypse, crowned with 12 stars. You guys need to read your bible more if you are going to catch up with us Catholics. Pax Christi

I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry. The extent of "Maryallergy" here is breathtaking. So are the assumptions, misconceptions, and outright dumb statements.

Let's take the issue of prayer and worship being the same thing, a rather emphatic statement made by one young lady. I sincerely hope that she never has to file a legal petition in court; it will say "plaintiff prays that the Court grant relief ..." and she'll have her name connected forevermore with "worshipping" the court (or maybe the judge).

Then there's this gem: "i forgot that catholics do not generally read the bible. they rely on their priest to tell them what it does and doesn't say ... if you notice, those are different passages that catholics have strewn together as if they are one passage. The last line is not scripture at all. They are not. take each verse in it's context and don't add to scripture's meaning."

Well, gosh. I guess I need to tell my Wednesday evening parish Bible study group that we can stop studying our Bibles since we're supposed to just let the priest tell us what it says.

And my goodness, "different passages strewn together"? That argument works if we were trying to quote the Bible. But it's a prayer, not a Scripture lesson.

All of this weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth is simply over mentioning Mary at all. That's their problem. As a convert from evangelicism, I'm quite comfortable with the place Mary has in the beliefs of the Church -- and I'm also quite aware of Who we worship. Had I been told that we were expected to "worship" Mary, I would not (could not!) have become Catholic.

None.

Catholics do not worship Mary and the saints. Fundamentalists: why would we Catholics go around telling people that we don't worship Mary if we really do?

Prayer is absolutely different from worship. Yes, we DO pray to Mary (well, we actually as HER to pray for us), but we do NOT worship her.

Worship is NOT about the physical manifestations exhibited during the process - it is about one's mindset over who is being worshiped. If we are mentally venerating Mary, than we are doing just that. Isn't it funny how some fundamentalists think that they are a higher authority to our thoughts than we are?

For fundamentalists:

I can't make the following point any more prominent: Catholics do not worship anyone or anything else other than the One True God that exists in the form of the Holy Trinity. While we certainly do give much honor to Mary and the Saints, this is not to be confused with worship.

To clear up this misconception, consider this scenario: What do you do during the National Anthem? All Americans are encouraged to stand, facing the flag, remove their hats, put their hand to their heart, and recite the words as they are sung. However, this certainly isn't worship, is it? You are simply giving honor to your country, and the thousands upon thousands of troops who sacrificed their lives for the freedom of their descendants.

This is pretty much the same thing that Catholics to with the Saints and Mary. We do not worship them, as they are not a god, but we do give them the honor they deserve for the great lengths they took for their beliefs and the betterment and promotion of their faith. Many of the Saints took the ultimate sacrifice, their lives, to keep their Catholic Christian beliefs true in their hearts. Certainly, the least we can repay them with is honor.

CJ - <<"The Bible says to only pray to God. ">>

Where? Note, though, that prayer is not worship. We are asking Mary to pray to God for our needs, just like you might ask your friend or fellow congregation to pray for your's. Only difference is that your friend is here on earth, so you communicate to him/her through speech. Mary is in heaven, so we communicate to her through prayer.

Which part of 'hail' and 'blessed' is unbiblical:

Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee (Luke 1:28)

Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus (Luke 1:42)

48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

I hadn't given this much thought before but now I see this as being wrong.

"Holy Mary, Mother of God (Mary is the Mother of Jesus, and Jesus is God)"

The bible clearly states that Jesus has existed from the beginning.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

And although Jesus is God, God is Spirit not flesh and Mary was the mother of the flesh of Jesus, not the mother of God. God has no mother as He is self existent.

By calling Mary the mother of God, it places Mary before God, this is idol worship. Jesus Himself stated about who is mother was:

<<Mar 3:33-34 to Mar 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother. >>

It couldn't be clearer than that.

the comment is Hail, is to shout to in welcome or greeting, that in itself is not to be considered idol worship, for it is not praise nor worship. welcoming some one as entering a room is not the same as taking out of context the first commandment. Being Jesus fulfilled the law given us, it should be deemed that comment is not idol worship, for idol worship may be considered still as invoking praise be for an object to receive blessing and thanks

In the gospel of St. Mark chapter 9:

3 And there appeared to them Elias with Moses; and they were talking with Jesus.

This is obvious Jesus communicating with the dead. How much clearer need He be?

Having others praying for us thus is a good thing, not something to be despised or set aside. Of course, we should pray directly to Christ with every pressing need we have (cf. John 14:13–14). That’s something the Catholic Church strongly encourages. In fact, the prayers of the Mass, the central act of Catholic worship, are directed to God and Jesus, not the saints.

But this does not mean that we should not also ask our fellow Christians, including those in heaven, to pray with us.

((( paula (re-born) ))) Not so:

. The bible clearly shows that this posture need not be equated with divine worship, or the worship afforded to God alone. Lot "bowed himself with his face to the earth" before the angels that visited him in Sodom (Gen 19:1). Joseph's brothers "bowed themselves before him with their faces to the ground" when they came to him for food (Gen 42:6). Saul "bowed with his face to the ground, and did obeisance" before Samuel (1 Sam 28:14). Bathsheba "bowed and did obeisance" to King David (1 Kings 1:16), as did Nathan (vs. 23), Ornan (1 Chron 21:21), and even the entire assembly (1 Chron 29:20). David himself bowed down before the temple of the Lord (Psa 138:2). The sons of the prophets at Jericho "bowed to the ground" before Elisha (2 Kings 2:15). King Nebuchadnezzar "fell upon his face, and did homage" to Daniel, and even commanded that an offering and incense be offered up to him! (Dan 2:46). Even Jesus Christ himself will make those of the synagogue of Satan to bow down before the church in Philadelphia (Rev 3:9).

None of it, in this prayer we are giving great glory to our God and Creator for His creation of this most perfect vessel that brought us all Salvation.

God bless you

Love,

Kate

Pray the Rosary and receive the Sacraments

LOL it is funny how there are so many who seem to be into the whole Sola Scriptura thing yet they overlook so much. Praying for the dead is Biblical, Praying to Saints is also Biblical, praying to the Angels is Biblical, Veneration of the Saint's is also biblical.

Why may you pray to the Blessed Virgin (Mary, Mother of God), the Angels and the Saints?

Because they are God's best friends; God will listen to them more than to us who are still sinners.

"Go to my servant Job, and offer yourselves a holocaust: and my servant Job shall pray for you: his face I will accept, that folly be not imputed to you: for you have not spoken right things before me, as my servant Job hath." (Job 42:8)

We all have a Guardian Angel, "See that you despise not one of these little ones: For I say to you, that their angels in Heaven always see the face of My Father Who is in Heaven." (Matthew 18:10) and that Angel has been given a task by God "Behold I will send My angel, who shall go before thee, and keep thee in thy journey, and bring thee into the place that I have prepared. Take notice of him, and hear his voice." (Exodus 23:20-21) though they can only do so much if one does not ask for their intercession.

Praying for the dead: "sent twelve thousand drachmas of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifices to be offered for the sins of the dead." (2 Machabees 12:43)

Christ is true God and true Man: "And lo, the Heavens were opened to Him: And He saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him. And behold a voice from Heaven, saying: 'This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.'" (Matthew 3:16-17) | "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

The veneration of the saints is not only in full accord with the demands of reason, but we are, moreover, enjoined explicitly by Holy Scripture to venerate the memory of the holy patriarchs and prophets: "Let us now praise men of renown, and our fathers in their generation" (Ecclus. xliv. 1). "And their names continue for ever, the glory of the holy men remaining unto their children" (Ecclus xlvi. 15).

Angels, and saints have the power to intercede with God on our behalf "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 18:10). Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth. Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

"[The Shepherd said:] 'But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask Him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from Him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from Him?'" (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]).

"Hail, Mary!" (inscription at the Church of the Annunciation in Nazareth [A.D. 200]).