If the Christian Church were to return to it's purpose and mission established by the early church fathers,?

I guess I am an idealist.... or a dreamer...

I picture a world where believers and nonbelievers could use their money and volunteer together at a food pantry, homeless shelter, or clinic. A world where Christian ministers live like Christ. A world where we focus on making sure everyone in our own neighborhood/community has food on the table and running water.

A world where there are no "Crystal Cathedrals" and multimillion dollar houses of worship, and especially no televangelists that live like millionaires on the donations of believers. Where believers practice their faith, but don't need ATMs in the lobby of exploitive mega churches.

A world where churches are as concerned about the environment and stewardship of the earth as they are about converting more tithe payers and purchasing expensive cars.

NOW... I know most Christians do not live wealthy lives and such. It's just as a drive around my state, I see an amazing number of multimillion dollar churches, and we have to fight with the city council to fund our homeless shelter. Even the wealthiest churches give very little.

It frustrates me... *sigh* So many believers talk in R&S about how the churches support the poor... and in real lfe, I have yet to see it across the entire state I live in (which is a conservative Christian state).

(((((Rammie))))) I luv's ya! You are one of the good people... I know how much you give of yourself. If only more Christians were like you... I'd work side-by-side with you, and other's like you, anyday.

In addition to the other posters: The Old Testament, The Septuagint [translated from Hebrew to Greek somewhere 250 BC] was in placed at that time, used even before Jesus' time. The New Testament was written 35-100 AD and translated to latin by St Jerome, sometimes 400 AD. It is still on parchments and read in the church, or preached orally. So, there IS NO NEW TESTAMENTS IN A BOOK/BIBLE FORM AT THAT TIME compiled with Septuagint.' Bible alone' theory is not in existence at that time as there is NO BOOK to call bible. It was the use of Oral Tradition up until 1400 when the 'compiled book form bible' finally hit the printing press. In other words, it took the Catholic Church about 400 years of gathering, editing, and sorting the ancient manuscripts and got printed in 1400. There were also a lot of uninspired writings [apocryphal books] that were floating around that were not cannonized.

I chose not to be contacted on my answer except by the asker. It is obvious that you know the answer if you have that much knowledge of the Word. Then why ask? Your statement here:

"I am asking a simple question. How would we as the church be affected (including preachers and priests) if tithing were to be used to support the poor and needy - to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, save the unsaved and love the unloved."

... makes little sense. That is only a portion of how tithing and offerings are to be used. So, instead of trying to match wits... I suggest you go to www . believe the sign . com and begin your journey to true understanding. The words of a vindicated prophet far outweigh our own intellectual conception of the Word.

Rammie, I'd ignore the people that don't know you very well. As Christ said, "father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

It's an interesting idea to go back to the church homes. I know of a woman who goes to one of these churches. Ultra conservative...always wears dresses and no makeup (and in high school, before her conversion, she was one of the wildest drug users in the school).

it would be interesting, because we would not need a church building, and the money people tithe could be used for ministries that God shows them to do. But it would also limit the ministry of the church body. we would have problems meeting as a corporate body, and it would limit the types of programs a group could have (how would you have youth groups, or kid's programs?). Also, would the pastor be a full-time pastor or would he work a full time job in addition? Considering that the majority of pastors today have been to seminary, how would they pay for student loans or other issues?

As far as the ministries in the community, it would drastically change what happened. Some of it would be very positive. I could see that group becoming very close as a body of Christ. And, most likely that group as a body of Christ would take a strong interest in the community and in ministry to others.

But, what do you do when a group that meets in a home has a lot of people that want to be with them? How could that group be able to accommodate the additional people?

One group I know started in a home church about 7 years ago, and now is in the process of paying for land, as their congregation averages over 700 people a Sunday. If you were limited to a house church, how would you decide to turn people away, and could you do that, especially if turning someone away kept someone from turning to the Lord?

Edit: True on the overseas missionary doctors. But, they are supported by the churches that have pledged their support, and that means that the church body does have to support the ministers.

Quite a few (albeit good) questions.

I think Chris WAS onto something, though.. financial plan of the early church "All that believed were together and had all things common" (Acts 2 :44, 45) but they didn't just everybody live in his own place and come to church once a week. They were together "daily,in breaking of bread and singleness of heart.." Marx and Engels and those impostors couldn't TOUCH this kind of communism. This is the only one that EVER worked! Based on love and sharing "all things".

They did not live communally as an "end" but to advance the goal of spreading the Gospel , like the other guy said.

Having said THAT.. I think you need to brush up a bit on the real purpose of your tithe. You may go to any church you WANT, or tithe to any church, or even group, or society, but the tithe is for the "Levites", for those who are giving their lives for the furtherance of Gods work. Laboring in the Word! It is NOT for the "poor". (Those "you have with you always") You are STILL supposed to help them TOO.. but that is NOT your "tithe". That is another gift, to help the poor which we are also asked to do, but the tithe is sacred, it is God's, it's for His work. Muslims refer to this helping the poor as "Sac-at" Sad to say, tons of churches take a large part of that money for the preacher and for their elaborate buildings, and give hardly ANYTHING to missions, when --in our time-- it should be mostly used for the winning of others. Time is short. So what are we going to do, polish up our act with God's money, broadcasting our million-dollar glass cathedrals --to ourselves-- or give ten cents on the dollar (which is shrinking FAST), to "go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature!" (Mark 16:15) Or if WE don't have the guts, or the faith to do it, at least use it to support somebody else who DOES!! That's what a "tithe" is for

The problem is that you may have far overlooked God's intention. The Bible says "do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together." Worshiping of God is ultimate priority...for it is not money and efforts of man that feed the hungry and the sick...it is God who does it....He wills man to go out and feed the poor help the sick shelter the homeless.

....by skipping God and attempting to do it on your own will be short lived...you wont keep it up.

.....do you see atheist or other organizations in the number and abundance of Christian Churches and missions.

We worship God in his home "The Church" gathering together...we support the church through weekly donations....the Church becomes a lighthouse to the poor needy spiritual starved....and they live.

((Rammie))

"Early church fathers" ?? What is wrong with simply following the public teachings of Jesus. If you care about others, you will be set aside for Heaven, no more no less. --- Source: The Beatitudes of Jesus

Father Guido was suspended over a year ago, but I saved this posting from him:

"The early Church fathers explained about Jesus' digestive tract?

Here it is, from Clement of Alexandria himself, a source often referred to by zealous Christians as an authority.

"He was continent, enduring all things. Jesus digested divinity; he ate and drank in a special way, without excreting his solids. He had such a great capacity for continence that the nourishment within him was not corrupted, for he did not experience corruption".

He's actually saying that Jesus didn't poop.

My point: The early fathers were not infallible.

They seem to have just made up whatever happened to enter their minds, no matter how completely ridiculous."

I have had it with all church officials. They seem to have said anything and everything to take our eyes off of Jesus and Jesus' instructions in the Sermon on the Mount.

I am not opposed to full-time salaried church staff. The laborer is worthy of his (or her) hire.

A tithe to a church that is engaged in being salt and light in the community is to me entirely biblical. The problem I have with so many churches today is that ministry is far down the list, really just a token effort, while churches splurge on banquets, entertainments for senior adults and children.

Did Jesus die so we could have supper clubs and combination Bible study/ski trips? Has the church survived for 2,000 years to end up as a country club where Christian comedians perform?

That is what I have trouble with, not the gathering of resources but how they are being allocated.

I think this is a great question that should be addressed.

If we Christians are welcomed into our churches and encouraged to stay only because of our tithing devotion, there may be something wrong with our particular brand of Christianity.

I think that tithing is best used supporting the poor and needy-there is nothing disrespectful about that.

This poster has posted a respectful question, and could use some respectful answers, even if you disagree.

((♥))

This is a logic error pure and simple. Those early adherents did not do what they did in defiance of the Church but in obedience, and that is the link with today, obedience to the Church. There is a Church Law about these things. Are you unaware.

====> Which are these special duties of Catholics, called the precepts of the Church?

Some duties expected of Catholics today include the following:

To worship God by participating in Mass every Sunday and holy day of obligation in order to keep holy the day of the Lord's resurrection, and to rest from servile labor on these days. (2042) To receive the sacrament of Reconciliation at least once a year; this continues the work of conversion in preparation for reception of the Eucharist. (2042) To receive Holy Communion during the Easter Season (in the United States, this duty may be fulfilled between the first Sunday of Lent to Trinity Sunday); this guarantees reception of the Body and Blood of the Lord at the Paschal time, which is the heart of the Church's liturgy. (2042) To observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church. These penitential acts prepare us for the feasts of the liturgical year, as well as strengthen us spiritually. (2043) To help to provide for the needs of the Church. This means that the faithful are to assist with the material needs of the Church, according to their ability. (2043)

You MUST be a Protestant. They love to make the Church Fathers out to be Little Luthers.