Out of spiritual curiosity, is desiring others to believe in us a selfish desire, or is it something greater?

Desire arouses from Vasna. All desires owe their existence to materialism and five senses. Desires are not attribute of spirit. It is the attribute of body. As long as mind is there, desire is there.

In transmigrating souls mind exists with a subtle body attached to it as sins, therefore Vasna( a genetically transmitted disease in scientific terms). In souls ending in salvation or Moksha, mind is dissolved in soul or dropped. Only pure soul can return to cosmic consciousness and therefore mind do not exist in that larger Cycle.

The sins attached as subtle body in the transmigrating soul as I said earlier is responsible for the level of spirituality in a newly born. If there is spirituality, what ever spoken to the individual spiritually will be acceptable and accepted. If the spiritual birth has not taken place in an individual, however you try you cannot convince him.

A spiritually born may need some guidance from the higher consciousness, and therefore they are fated to meet those who can explain things to them at lower levels of spiritual understanding. Those who are below you can only push you up a mountain not knowing where the one you are pushing up is heading to, but those who are above you and pulling you up knows exactly what is up there. This is one reason for a Guru.

No doubt all minds' desires are selfishness and is the game of ego indulged in worldliness. An Ego indulging in spirituality falls back to Soul identifying itself with the soul and its actual Dharma ( Duty - a very weak English equivalent). That is why Aham Brahmasmi. Aham here is the Ego which identified itself with the Soul; is Brahman.

There cannot be unconditional love as long as Desire is there. Unconditional love can happen only when you find yourself in everything in the world. Identifying and realising that Self or final answer to What am I? itself is God and that God is the same Shakthi or life force present in everything around you as God himself breathed HIMSELF into each and every atom by its omnicience, or in other words, we our self are omnicient the moment we understand that we are in everything, every atom as the soul we possess is the same soul which everyone else and everything else in the world possesses.

"Should" connotes "Nishta" a regularity without which the spiritual journey is incomplete. It is the commandment the soul gives to the body for regularity, continuity. Awareness without continuity is useless., Consciousness without continuity is useless. Earth without continuity is destruction and useless. Anything without conintuity is useless. Regularity or Nishta or the commandment of the Soul to the body or matter for Nishta is what makes the world run. I hope I helped.

Details: I have changed it for you to include all meanings by saying should "connotes". Pale Blue Me has beautifully pointed out that aspect to you by saying wholesome desire is towards liberation and unwholesome is towards bondage. I would suggest a little more by saying "every word we speak is feminine, masculine, negative, positive, wholesome, unwholesome, material & spiritual, etc. Since words are thoughts in sound form, each texture of the mental makeup is reflected or /is neetly packed in a word, the overlaps are also reflected. Therefore, we should not find a difference between a word and thoughts of that word in a speaker. The meaning of the word therefore is relative with the thoughts of speaker. The word "should" would connote Nishta when the path or thought is towards liberation. The same "should" would be evil when you say "You should murder". The action justifies the meaning and the thought. Even in such context which is towards bondage the "should" has a finite action which is Evil-ly regular. I shall demonstrate by a small story. A saint goes across a river every day to worship piously the God he found on the other bank of the river. An evil person desecrated what ever the saint did, every day after the saint left. The evil person broke the image of god and pelted stones and did all kinds of things. It went on for years. One day there was a storm in the river, the saint could not corss the river. But the evil person crossed the river and pelted as usual. When it came to judgement, the saint found the evil person already in the heaven. Asked God why that is so. God replied it was his Nishta which brought him to heaven. Even the unwholesome if done with regularity and continuity leads to wholesome as Satan has to ultimately join with God. Path to Bondage also ultimately reaches path to liberation. So Vasna whether it be fragrance of the flower or smel of dirt, both are smell and blend with each other to disappear. I hope I am somewhat clear to you.

Dear Kasey,

I hesitated to answer this question because others have done such a great job of answering it. I thought I may not have anything to add, and that may still be true.

I believe Rob P hit the nail on the head.

If the need to be "believed in" is a condition for our loving ourselves or others, only then is it an unwholesome desire.

Desires, as we know, come in two kinds: wholesome--those which lead to liberation, and unwholesome--those which lead to bondage. Both of these are concepts, tools to take us along the path. Ultimately they have no meaning.

The supposed individual observes thought because conditions are right for doing so, but this is not our permanent state.

Your new avatar is of ripples on the water's surface, perhaps that of a drop falling, merging into a larger body.

We put so much emphasis on the drop, ourselves, but once it has become part of the larger body it is no longer just a drop, separable from all the rest.

The larger body cannot separate the drop from who it is. If it wasn't for the drop, it would be an entirely different body of water altogether.

Conversely, the drop cannot say it's not the cloud or the sun that caused the water to condense.

When we get passed the idea of self, then we see that all perceptions are mere phantoms in an infinite spectrum of existence and non-existence.

Then our love and feelings about ourselves will not depend on any concept.

When we come to this realization, then it is safe for us to go back to calling ourselves human-beings. Then we see ourselves as being human, without being overly attached to the idea.

Humans have basic psychological needs, and desiring to be seen for our potential is part of that.

It confirms our existence. Like kids wanting the truckers to pull the cord for the horn.

I've always thought that the ultimate approval was from kids since they are very truthful and dont make friends with grown-ups very often. To have one give me a thumbs up and say "Cool" is like all the best things in the world.

I like approval by my peers too ... but often older people will "fake it" for my benefit, and may not always mean it.

I no longer use the words "IF, COULD, SHOULD or WOULD". I was taught long ago ... You either DO IT or you do NOT. There is no other option.

Peace

I AM

Dartagnon

It matters not if others "believe" in us when Unconditional Love is purely projected. It is known (read: realized) therefore belief is not required.

You allow the source of selfishness to arise when the term "want" is used. This is desire, which is of attachment. Only the ego-self desires. This is a form of "love taking" in place of unconditional love given. It does not have to be "unhealthy" unless the "wanting" individual allows it to be. Guilt is a conduit that creates "unhealthy' beliefs.

The term "should" is no more powerful than what we choose to give it. Words are nothing more than words. And it is words, indeed language, that is limiting, limited and impoverished.

Pure love given, unconditionally requires no language. Therefore words become moot.

Blessings

Yes. I believe it is a selfish desire, but many selfish desires are positive. It is more the purpose behind that desire. Thinking about how others think of you is an unhealthy search. Don't invest to much time on it, the return is not that great. Should, in the sense of, I should had done that, in past tense. Yes.

Child of Light

Once you love and accept yourself....unconditionally love and accept yourself....you will need no assurance. So how then do we fit into the whole? Well if i accept myself truly...and i am part of the whole...then do i not then accept everyone else as they are...and through them arent i then accepted. The problem is that not enough people believe in themselves...therefore they dont believe in others...it is a very positively correlated notion..and i dont have it all worked out but the main crux of what i am trying to say is that i believe that love of self, therefore the love of others, is the key to it all

Wanting others to believe is essentially wanting acceptance on some level.

When it comes to unconditional love I suppose it would relate by wanting others (or those we choose) to love us no matter what we believe or what they believe we believe.

To want is natural and it isn't selfish.

Selfish in my opinion is to want, take, not give back, and not want to give back.

Want can be eradicated between two unselfish sourses and thus cannot be selfish.

Example: I want something from you, you want something from me.

If we give to each other neither of us will want anything from the other. Thus eliminating the want and breeding giving.

A selfish sourse of want can never be erased because it will only consume and never release. The only selfish act there is the want to be selfish and the act of being selfish. Not just want in general.

Example: I want something from you, you want something from me.

I take something from you without giving anything back to you.

Thus there is still want between the two of us even though I want for nothing after I take from you.

You are left insufficient and I will not correct this.

Thus I am being selfish.Because I WANT to be selfish.

I hope that was clear lol I did my best to explain. Interpret it as you may.

Peace and Blessings = )

I see that many times the apparent desire to have others believe in us is an unbalanced understanding of a genuine need to be recognized. Human beings are naturally social and we do have basic needs as human beings. These are needs associated with our humanity not our spirituality. To be healthy beings on earth we must balance our human needs with our spiritual awareness. As human beings we have a need for interaction with other human beings. For that interaction to be truly healthy and nourishing for us we must feel that we are recognized as the "good and spiritually beautiful" beings that we know ourselves to be deep within.This is misinterpreted as a desire for others to believe in us and many a ego has used it as a weapon to beat up on self for having a desire that keeps one from "enlightenment".

To expect any return including belief in or recognition of one is not the expression of unconditional love. That "love" would be the emotional clinging of the ego; more akin to wanting or desire than to love.

Unconditional love is not a mere emotion. It is our natural state of being as the pure spiritual beings that we are beyond the world of form. To know unconditional love one must uncover it from deep within underneath the many layers of "identity" the ego has formed on top of who we really are. To know unconditional love one must let it shine out from deep within into the world. It is not given nor received neither is it dependent on any form taken in the world; one must, just simply, be it.

Bonus question: would it be spiritually beneficial to erase 'should' from our mindset?

No, the ego would just substitute another word to stand in for it. It is however, spiritually beneficial to look at when and where we find ourselves using the word should and really examine what that tells us about the structure of the human ego and how it distracts us from who we really are. Use it as a trigger to become intensely aware of what is happening when and where it is being used.

I have long claimed we should eliminate the word should from the language.

Desire for others to believe in us is ego, which Genesis called Pride.

I do not believe in unconditional love. "Whom I love, I reprove!". There are many ways to demonstrate love, which is an action verb. Picking the right one at the right time is wisdom.

It is totally selfish and self serving.

If you have discovered any truth....you need to use it to empower people to think for them selves and draw their own conclusions

And to believe in them selves and their own"THOUGHT THROUGH"

conclusions

People should be inclined to have faith and trust in you

To expect them to believe in you or to think you have all the answers is personal lack of self esteem and Arrogance

Enlightenment comes to mind help people find enlightenment not worship you as the .....know all teller of the tell

??SHOULD???

No way erase it

Just because you can do something..... Should you?

There are things you want to do

things you should do

and must do

Erase the word can't....not the word should

should implies accountability....we need more of that in the world