Can a trinitarian answer these 2 questions about the trinity dogma?

They can't.

By their own responses, many here who believe in the Trinity have demonstrated that they don't even understand their own doctrine.

The Trinity is defined as God being composed of three separate persons: "the Father", "the Son" and "the Holy Spirit". Now if Jesus were to speak of the FATHER as a separate person, then the definition of the trinity could be argued as upheld. But since Jesus is written and identified in John 1:1 and John 17:3 AS a separate person from God (NOT THE FATHER), then that would positively EXCLUDE him as being God!

Objective readers can see that John 1:1 shows more about how Jesus is not God than being God. The word "beginning" as used in Jn 1:1 indicates that the Word began at this time. Because Jehovah God, the Father alone has always existed, the word "beginning" cannot be applied to Him, but only to His creations. Therefore, the first part of Jn 1:1 indicates that the Word began at this time.

And if the third part of Jn 1:1 were interpreted to mean "the" God, then this would contradict the preceding clause of the second part which says that the Word was WITH God. Yet, the use of "God" for theos in John 1:1c is purposely mistranslated in most Trinitarian-produced Bibles without the indefinite article (a).

Additional:

It is funny how the supposedly equal, yet nameless and impersonal Holy Spirit is almost always never considered when the Trinity is discussed. For the supposed third person of God, the holy spirit sure doesn't get much attention.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions-and_answ...

I am not a believer of Trinity, but I am persuaded that it is possible to know God's thoughts since we have received the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:11). Thus, the Trinitarian defense utilizing Isaiah 55:8-9 is futile. Isaiah 55:8-9 was during a time where the Holy Spirit would temporarily come upon people. Today, it is possible to know God's thoughts because we have the Father with us and the indwelling of the Father. jpark43 Oneness Pentecostal

The answers given show that there is a assumption that John 1:1 is using theion, theiotes, or theotes to mean Godhead. And the Godhead must be the father (no answer shows the Holy Spirit).

However, this would be a incorrect assumption. John uses "Theos" or God and does not mention the father. This means that Jesus was with God rather then "a" Godhead.

Question #1: Exactly. Both are God but Father and Son are distinct persons of the Trinity. The verse also says: and the Word was God.

Question #2: When Jesus says "God" He is refering to the Father.

I know that you are not looking for an honest answer to this question,but I will answer.

1-The Trinity means that there are Three persons in the Godhead.Therefore the second person known as the Word was with God the Father.

2-Jesus is a part of the Eternal God,therefore he can refer to another part as the Only True God..He is the Only True God as well at 1 John 5:20.

Try again..

>> Question # 1: IF God is a trinity, then how is it that “the Word was WITH

>> God.”? (John 1:1, 2) How can the Word - Jesus - be WITH God if God

>> is a trinity and Jesus is part of that trinity?

        The answer is right there in the verse you cited: John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God. You see, the Word was both WITH God AND IS God.

>> Question # 2: IF God is a trinity, what did Jesus mean by speaking of himself

>> AND the only true God as distinct from one another when he said in

>> John 17:3, “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only

>> true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”? (KJV)

        As a man, Jesus set us an example to revere and worship the One True God of Heaven. But Jesus was not saying that God was singular. That is just our language getting in the way. Jesus also claimed to be that God and the Son of God and accepted worship on that basis:

John 8:58,59 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM." (59) Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

John 9:35-38 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, "Dost thou believe on the Son of God?" (36) He answered and said, "Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?" (37) And Jesus said unto him, "Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee." (38) And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped him.

John 10:36 "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

God bless.

OK the trinity is this God the father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They are three sperate persons the Son is not the Father The Father is not the Son the Holy Spirit is not the Father Or the Son. But as part of the Godhead they are one in purpose one in power together they are God Almighty. So to answer your question they are three seperate persons.

Genesis 1:26, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Who was God speaking to?

The concept of the trinity is a huge mystery. If anyone claims they understand it, I maintain that they don't really know what they are talking about. Somehow, in ways that I can't understand, the Bible talks about God as having three distinct persons. It also talks about there being one and only one God. Therefore, humans invented the term "trinity" to refer to this three-in-one mystery about God.

Given that:

1) As three-in-one, are they not all "with" each other?

2) The Bible clearly makes a distinction between the three persons of the godhead. How are they also one God? I really don't know.

The Bible has demonstrated itself to be faithful in so many other ways that there are a few places--like this one--where I just have to trust that God knew what he was doing when he inspired the writers.

Lol, all they can say is "The trinity is hard to understand". Well, no **** genius? When something has no basis to it, of course it's hard to understand.

Question asker, no trinitarian can answer this question because it has no answer. The trinity is a stupid concept based on nothing, has no logic and makes 0 sense.

Look here:

Acts 7:55-56 (King James Version)

"55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God."

And here:

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. (NIV)

And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known -- not even the messengers of the heavens -- except my Father only; (YLT)

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[a] but My Father only. (New KJV)

How could he be God but not know the Hour? Because he is admitting he is not God, and that the Father is his father, and our father, figuratively and not literally.

If Jesus is Son and Father at the same time(which, makes wtf sense btw), how did he not know the Hour? Isn't he God?

If they are (as the Trinity implies) 'the same' or 'of the same personage' etc...Jesus would know EVERYTHING that the Father would know. But here he does not know when 'that day' or 'hour' will occur. Could you know something that you do not know?? Could you hide a secret from yourself??

Jesus always said "My Lord and Your Lord is One Lord", how can he be the Lord and still say My Lord?

When performing miracles, he always said "I was able to do this only with the help of My Lord".

When he said "My Father", he didn't literally mean MY FATHER.

But "Father" meaning our "Creator".

When we say "Father of Science" and such, do we really refer to that person as our literal father, no.

The same case was here. In any instances Jesus used the phrase "My Father", he simply meant "My Creator". And he confirms this by NOT knowing the Hour, confirming that he was able to do miracles only with God's finger, etc.

God in the beginning was and is 3 parts and they were all 3 present in the begining of all things.

God, His Son Jesus, and the Holy spirit

Thus the scripture

In the beginning was the Word and the word was God and the Word was with God

Jesus is named in Rev. as coming with the name of The Word Of God upon His breast plate. God and Son are God and the Holy Spirit is that of the Son .

All are equal.

The Holy Spirit is here upon the earth as we speak and is doing the work God has set for Him in the hearts of Man. The one and only unforgivable sin is to blasfeem the Holy Spirit.

your friend