"Reform" Messianic Judaism?

While there is a lot of variety in practices within Messianic Judaism, I don't know of any that are so liberal as Reform Judaism. Messianics tend to be more similar to the Conservative branch on most matters.

Many Messianic Jews are quite negative about the Reform branch, even to the point of not recognizing their converts as full-fledged Jews unless their conversion included a proper circumcision (or the ritual drawing of a drop of blood from the penis of an already circumcised male),and a mikveh. There seems to be a tendency among Messianics to question whether or not the Reform branch should even be considered genuine Judaism.

Jews who come to believe in Jesus practice their faith in many venues, but those who attend Messianic synagogues generally do not consider the Talmud (or the "oral Torah") as binding, but do consider the written Torah to still be obligatory. Since Reform Jews view Torah law as something they can observe or not observe, depending on what they find personally "meaningful", the move from Reform Judaism to Messianic Judaism can involve a complete paradigm shift and a radical move toward more conservative observance.

EDIT @Marcus: The asker asked a good, legitimate question. I gave a factual, accurate answer that was completely devoid of any personal bias. He wanted to know if there are any "Reform" Messianic Jewish groups, and I told him what he wanted to know, along with an explanation regarding the way Messianic Jews tend to view the Reform movement. Reading any kind of an insult into that is quite far-fetched.

Considering your history of scathing insults, name-calling, childish profanity, and utter contempt--not only for Messianic Jews, but also for people who merely discuss them without sharing your opinion, any accusations of being "insulting" that come from you would be quite unpersuasive. Perhaps you should consider simply answering the question posted by the asker and leaving your own views out of it for a change. You would garner respect and credibility if you did. You ARE entitled to your opinion---you're not entitled to cram it down everybody else's throat and attempt to discredit and smear anybody who doesn't share it, however. This is a distinction you need to learn.

EDIT @ MamaPajama: Would you do me a favor? Would you kindly re-read the original question that the asker has posted? Good--thank you. Now, help me out here---can you tell me where the asker has asked ANYTHING about "Black Hebrew Israelites", "the Christian Identity movement", or "British Israelites"? Hmmm? That's what I thought--I can't either. In fact, the asker never said WORD ONE about ANYTHING other than Messianic Jews and their relationship to the Reform movement, and therefore, neither did I.

The asker specifically asked for PERTINENT answers to his question, so I gave a succinct answer that addressed what he wanted to know without interjecting a bunch of personal opinions and biases--my, what a novel concept, eh? But naturally, you and others on here have to try turn the question into an exercise in grandstanding while you try to cram your subjective opinions down everyone's thoat and then pretend you're being insulted or somehow persecuted by everyone who doesn't wholeheartedly endorse everything you want them to think.

You've made a lot of erroneous remarks that really shouldn't go unchallenged, but because they have nothing to do with the question at hand, I'm not going to address them. I think some of you need to learn to respond appropriately and learn how to SHARE you views instead of practically demanding that people think your way and not look to the side.

They are still Jews. There are really two kinds of Jews, Messianic Jews and non Messianic Jews. The Non Messianic Jews usually don't like the Messianic ones much. The Messianic Jews are following a Rabbi of the First century that they believe is the Messiah.

From most people who do not accept Yeshua as the Messiah, it is doubtful that you are going to get the answer that you are seeking. If some Messianic Jewish people or Messianic Believers, (yes there is a distinction between the two), who are in the know come on here and answer your question, you might get a good answer.

I understand that there are many of the Rabbinical Judaism who do not accept Yeshua as the Messiah. However, a couple I met are by family and in semitic tribal lineage of Israel, whether you would count those as Jewish are not by the standards you have been taught to accept.

No disrespect intended.

Just to clear up a few points -

Rabbi Carol Harris-Shapiro:

Her book Messianic Judaism: A Rabbi's Journey through Religious Change in America has been the focus of a controversy because of misunderstandings of her final point. She concludes that given the Jewish community's tacit acceptance of other seemingly "heretical" Jews as part of the ethnic Jewish community, it would be difficult to find a consistently logical reason to reject Messianic Judaism, although she is quite clear that communities can draw boundaries as they see fit.

*****Theologically, she affirms that Messianic Jews are adherents of Evangelical Christianity.*****

and Rabbi Sherboks's idea is rather controversial; although he believes that "Jews for Jesus" might be included as Jews, he thinks that the reaction to this new book could be stormier than he expects. He may be glad that he only has sheep for company in Wales, for a while at least. (article in the Independent).

As someone mentioned - two Rabbis (actually now one) - do NOT make up a Judaic source.

There are several branches of Protestant Christianity that are on the left and they'd probably be able to suit you.

response: ALL branches of REAL Judaism, the state of Israel and the US military agree that "messianics" are NOT Jews, they are Christians.

I doubt any of the "messianic" groups are calling themselves "Reform" yet because they're too busy trying to hang onto a greased calf-label of "Jews" and deceiving themselves and others.

Smul - its a shame two REAL Jewish rabbis have fallen for the deception and don't understand the HARM and disrespect "messianics" are causing between Xtians and real Jews. Thankfully that's only 2 out of THOUSANDS that do understand and denounce "messianics"

There are two branches of Christianity -- Catholic and PROTESTant. The protestant branch IS reform!

.

How can there be?

Is there a 'reform' group in Christianity? No.

If a group of Christians starts adding Hindu rituals to their worship - do they then become "messianic hindus"...?

No?

Kindly apply the same logic to Christians who chuck in some 'jewish' words etc to their CHRISTIANITY.

Messianics openly *admit* they are Christians:

“We are committed to the god-given Mandate of communicating the essential Gospel of Yeshua (Jesus) the Messiah to the Jewish people…We owe it to Jesus, and to every living Jewish person to present the Gospel to him or her.”

-Assemblies of god “ messianic jewish” Ministries

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Are you aware that these same Xian Evangelicals now pose as 'MESSIANIC MUSLIMS'?

Radical Missionary Approach Produces ‘Messianic Muslims’

SOURCE: http://www.hvk.org/articles/0204/104.html

“Thus, for instance, Churches might be called “messianic mosques” – and may be designed to look like Muslim places of worship, with worshippers being required to remove their footwear before entering.

“Worship services might be designed on the lines of Sufi zikr and sama sessions, with regular Christian Sufi orders in place. Certain Muslim festivals may be celebrated by Christians after being ****suitably adapted.***

“By thus presenting themselves as little different from Muslims in external appearance, Christian missionaries will find it easier to win Muslim friends, and, hopefully, converts.”

SOURCE: http://www.hvk.org/articles/0204/104.html

“Become like the Muslims to reach the Muslims. Be all things to all men, George suggests to potential Christian missionaries. Hence, George suggests, in their encounters with Muslims, Christian missionaries must insist that they alone are the true Muslims.

This, he says, promises to have an impact on potential converts. In order to further convince Muslims of their claims to true ‘Islamicity‘, Christian missionaries could formulate their own version of the Muslim Shahada.

“Christian missionaries, too, might adopt taqiya, concealing their faith when occasion demands, focussing more on what unites them with the Muslims rather than on what divides them, while at the same time trying to spread Christianity among the Muslims through subtle means. “

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0204/104.html

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/2000/04/Radical-Mi...

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/spirituality/lighth...

From what I've seen, MJs are quite 'liberal' in their approach to Jewish ritual. So much so that in comparison, the Reform movement is practically Orthodox.

I would assume so- after all, Devoted1- a "messianic jew" that frequently posts here (trying to defend "messianic judaism" by attacking Jews and Judaism) stated in a comment (found here http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ao2SL... )

""The angels," we aren't "bound to Jewish law," we LOVE God's Torah and we are bound by Yeshua HaMashiach. We aren't "idolators," we are redeemed, bought with a price, and will reside for eternity with Yahweh our Elohim. YOU are bound to the law, we are FREE."

In other words- devoted 1- while claiming to be a "messianic jew' also admits that she doesn't see a need to follow Jewish law! I suppose that would count as "reform messianic judaism" LOL

No...Reform Jews, like all Jews, reject Messianic "Jews"...who are in fact evangelical Christians who include a few Jewish practices in their worship. A Reform Jew who went Messianic would become a Christian, like anyone else...Jews reject the notion that the Messiah has yet come.

If Messianic Jews became more "liberal", they would probably drop the few Jewish practices they do observe in their worship, and just become ordinary Evangelicals.

Peace