Should Adult Adoptees and Surrendering Mothers have equal access ?

yes, absolutely and to deny mothers access to this Vital Record is a form of government cover-up and a violation of the 4th Amendment, as well as the 14th Amendment. It is discriminatory and violates the right to private documents...about oneself. The mother's name is on the OBC. She participated in the birth. Parts of her medical history are even on the OBC.

The 4th Amendment says" The right of the people to be secure in their person, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated and no warrants shall issue, but upon probably cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

The opinion I have regarding this issue comes from one of the attorneys in my family...an attorney who has handled private adoptions...and who believes that all 3 parties have the right to identifying documents about each other.. "The 4th Amendment applies because the 'papers" that contain the information regarding the birth of our children were taken, and sealed away from us. The birth of a child is both a public and private event, and the parent/child biological relationship created on the birth certificate is permanent, even if an adoption occurs. By seizing and sealing identifying records on the mothers and children, the gov't has interfered, illegally, with a private relationship."

Surrender of a child does not "seize the OBC"...only adoption does that. Only the act of adoption, which occurs months, even years after the surrender, actually seizes the OBC and seals it.

Mothers whose children are not adopted can still get the OBC. Their names are on it...even if the child was surrendered.

Other Vital Records, such as divorce or marriage records are not sealed from the persons whose names are on them, not even if the parties have re-married....no matter how unhappy the divorce was..no matter how much the parties may want to pretend it never happened(people used to try to hide previous marriages ).

Vital Records are stored and made available to persons who are determined by law and policy to have a ''direct and tangible connection to the document or the registrant(child)". They are usually found in an office connected to the Dept of Health, which is part of the Dept of Social Services(or Human Services, etc.)

This is part of the Executive branch of government.

Mothers did not agree to this government seizure of personal information, nor that it be hidden and false issue be given later on...in the name of the adoptive parents.......(the falsified BC).

the 4th Amendment is one that was used to argue the right to used birth control, in the USA. (Griswold v Connecticut US Supreme Court, 1965) and it deals with much more than police searches.

In all other situations, parents have the right to a copy or copies of their children's BC. I am not adopted as I am a natural mother whose child was lost to me against my will to a corrupt private agency in the 1960s.

But, I had never seen my real actual birth certificate, as I was just using a birth registration.

I asked my father, a man in his 80s, to get a copy of my BC, and he did. He went to the Hall of Records in the state where I was born. That was last year.... they gave it to him, and I didn't have to give him permission. He had that right by law.

In the state where I now live, I can get my husband's BC, and would be entitled to the BC of a number of other relatives, if they were born here...including any children born to me, and grandchildren as well.

I am a mother without my child and since I am the mother that gave birth to my son

I believe that I have every right to his obc and he being my child that is listed on the

birth certificate I believe he has every right to his ocb as well before the adopters had

it amended he was my son

In other words mother and child have every right to the original birth certificate

I support adoptees right to their obc

The original bc should definitely be available to the adoptee and 'birth' parents. I don't know about private adoptions, but with foster care, you get nothing but the altered one. The mother/father have the original the whole time anyway.

I don't see why anyone would have a problem with it since it would be their own information on it... and if the adoptee is an adult they should be able to get that info.

Sorry if I seem dumb, I don't know much about private adoptions.

Yes, of course we should have the Original Birth Certificates of our children, and should have been given them when they were born, as do all mothers. We were until we surrendered and the courts accepted the surrenders, the one and only mothers of our children. The 4th Amendment to the Constitution pledges that we are secure in our private papers, and they are not subject to illegal seizure, which this clearly is.

Further, in order to meet the requriements of equal access, accorded by the 14th Amendment, we also, as principles to the adoption process, should be given access to the same kind of information that the adoptees receive when they are seeking Open Access. That would, in the case of adoption, be the Amended Birth Certificate provided to the mothers, as it is in several states now and in the UK, AUS and CA. To deny the mothers equally identifying information on the child they surrendered the right to parent denies this right.

A woman who signs a surrender document is signing the right to parent the child. She is not forefeiting her right to ever know her child. As an adult, her child has the right to free association, as does the mother. These are not just terms that we are throwing around, but legal terminology.

I believe that by NOT including the mothers in Equal Access Legislations that adoptees are shooting themselves in the foot. We are a nation of LAWS, not feelings. If someone feels or thinks that mothers deserve to be punished, there are laws in place that keep that from happening. By working contrary to the Constitution and the Amendments to it, the legislations are doomed to fail. If the adoptees and those working with them don't know the laws and the legal ramifications of certain actions, the Legislators do!

Yes most definitely. This is one thing that the UK has got right although adoptees have to wait till they are 18 before they are allowed to have access to their OBC which is cheap to get. Mothers get the BC when they register the child's birth.

I accept as true with what maximum everybody right here has stated. what's it approximately me, at age 36 (now) or the different time after my 18th birthday, that made/makes me 'incapable' of coping with a dating -- or no longer -- with my very very own organic mum and dad? How am I distinctive than my 36-year-previous husband who's entrusted (and left on his very own) to handle his relationships along with his mum and dad and different contributors of his organic family contributors -- a number of whom are abusive? definite, dad and mom could certainly have the comparable get admission to to all resign and adoption-appropriate advice that an adoptee can (or will sometime have the flexibility to) get admission to on the age of majority. i became born, and observed, respectively in states that even have closed archives. i'm hoping for the day whilst they're going to open yet i'm particular they are going to be between the final, as they're the two extremely conservative and one is called, "the main conservative state interior the rustic". What i don't comprehend is: what's with this thought that mothers, fathers and their very very own toddlers are frightening, creepy, stalker-like people who're in decide on of secure practices from one yet another? If i did no longer prefer to have a dating (of any nature) with yet another grownup, there are techniques in place decrease than the regulation to handle that. on the different hand, why assume it would even 'bypass there'? I even have ended, or refused to have, relationships with many human beings over the path of my existence. I even have in no way necessary to get a restraining order and that i've got in no way been in worry of being stalked. further, if the different grownup declined to have a dating with me, i might appreciate that. What i do no longer appreciate is the determination of a 0.33 social gathering that I would not have a dating with somebody who has in no way posed any threat to me. Ridiculous! definite, I could have get admission to and definite, my dad and mom could, too.

My eyes are loopy from trying to follow your question. Legal briefs should be brief. Emotional appeals should move you. Logical arguments should be easy to follow the reasoning.

Sorry, as someone who doesn't follow these legal movements. I got lost.

My answer is without knowing what you are trying to say, is that all triad issues are about anger and control. If there is a legal remedy for dysfunctional human nature, I'd like to see it.

Not if the adoptee is an adult. No parent is entitled to a copy of their child's birth certificate once that child is an adult - adopted or not unless of course our child gives it to us. Nor can our children get a copy of our birth certificate.

As I mentioned on the other question, even my mother cannot get a copy of my birth certificate unless perhaps I'm deceased and that has nothing to do with adoption.

When I found Steve, I had petitioned the court in Pennsylvania to find him. After our reunion, I wrote a letter signed by both he and I requesting a copy of Steve's OBC. The Judge said he could only send it to Steve - which he did.

I'm not understanding all this focus though on why some mother's are refusing to support adoptee's right to a copy of their OBC but only if they get a copy of it as well? I don't see why some people want to make it conditional..call me naive but I'm just not getting it.

Additional info - I was corrected on the other question that anyone can get anyone's copy of their birth certificate, so I stand corrected here. I understand why some of you feel it isn't fair however for adoptee's to get their OBC and not first mothers, but that for some reason just doesn't change my mind.

And I'm confused because I thought the original other question asked was stating that if an adopted person could get their OBC that the mother should be able to get their Amended?

I think I'm going to politely bow out of this discussion. LOL

Sandy, I see that you are quoting the 14th amendment as is Kitta as to why mothers should be included in open access legislation.

Why don't you make that suggestion to the AAC and BN? Why not put that out there to the various adoptee groups? Marley is always great to brainstorm with.

If you think they're shooting themselves in the foot to not include that piece in proposed legislation - why not suggest it to those who are actually writing it? I'm not being flippant, I'm just really curious to see if they agree and if not, why not?

ETA Chris, I said that I stand corrected on the fact that one can order a "copy" of someone else's OBC if they're related. I believe I was thinking of the certified copy, but nevertheless I am wrong.

And I don't disagree with the fact that we as mothers should have copies of our child's OBC or that we didn't get a scrap of paper and we SHOULD have. I'm not sure why a couple of mothers who I consider friends are insisting that I don't believe we are entitled to this information. Or that in a perfect world, open access proposed legislature would include access to at least the OBC which was issued before the adoption took place.

All I have said all along was in response to a couple of mothers who have said that they will NOT support an open access bill for adoptees if it doesn't include the same open access for mothers bundled along with it.

Most of these open access bills are not perfect, but I still choose to support legislation that adoptees should be entitled to a copy of their OBC even if it does NOT include the same right for first mothers. I certainly don't begrudge anyone their opinion on this, but to be chastized because I repeated an erroneous comment (and then admitted I was wrong) both on here and with private emails is confusing and feels confrontational. Is this just because I am still supporting adoptees on this issue?

Not that I'm implying I'm so experienced in this issue, but Jane Servadio and several of us in Ct. found a sponsor and put together the first proposed bill in Ct. (that I am aware of) for adoptees access to identifying information in the early 1990's. We were never able to get that passed for adoptees, but still trying every year. The issue of mothers having access to copies of the OBC, ABC or any identifying info has never come up there or in any of the other couple of states I've been involved in. Why? Probably because those involved in writing the bill didn't think of it. That doesn't mean I don't agree that we should have the same kind of access. But since no one has proposed it in Ct., Pa or even NY which are the states I've participated in speaking to legislators and/or letter writing campaigns, I'm not going to suddenly back off and say I'm no longer going to be supportive if that stipulation isn't added in.

I also agree with Theresa that you can't bundle the mother's access in with a request for adoptees to have access. It can be in the same bill but has to be separate. If some of you think you can get enough support to have it added in to current proposed legislation or down the road, I say go for it. I just wouldn't want to slow down the progress in the states we have been getting opened or are close. I am really hoping we can agree to disagree on this - having a different opinion does not make me the enemy or even mean that i disagree in theory with what you are saying.

Uuuuhh no. If my so-called "mother" gave me away, she doesn't get to keep playing mummy. My information is none of her business and if I'm an adult, how bout if ***I*** decide what info of mine everyone else gets.

Geeeez, it's never about the adoptee, is it? I personally dont think "mothers" should be hijacking an adoptee cause.

You were there, weren't you??? Don't you remember it??? Why do you need the BC at all?? Just to say you have it?