As a Catholic Christian...........?

I sincerely hope that you are actually looking for serious and factual replies. And not merely wanting some kind of validation for your already made up mind.

You might want to go to this site:

Catholic: Dignity USA http://www.dignity.usa.org/

They put forth a good argument for gay marriage among gay Catholics

The Campaign by the Magisterium and the Pope against gays is reprehensible.

I had been a long time Catholic for 50 years BUT i can no longer believe everything they teach.

When I was in the seminary, one of the young theologians who taught me at Catholic University in Wash DC was Fr. Charles Curran. He eventually went on to become the head of their Theology department. About 10 years or so ago he was relieved of his teaching duties because he came to the conclusion that gay marriage was morally consistent with Biblical theology. You might be surprised how many CATHOLIC theologians have in the past 15 years or so been relieved of their teaching positions over just this issue.

A couple good books written by a former Jesuit also can give you good information of the from a more "Catholic" perspective.

"The Church and the Homosexual" by John J. McNeill

for more information see: http://www.johnjmcneill.com/

Please do not conclude that just because the current Pope etc. are quite militant against gays and gay marriage that all Catholic Bishops or theologians agree.

Note the current focus on artificial birth control. Most priests today in this country would tell their parishioners that there is no moral problem using birth control per se.

Note also: The Catholic Church is NOT infallible on this issue.

This is the SAME Church who made the following statement in 1866: "Slavery...is not at all contrary to the divine ir natural law..." If they can be so wrong about this issue in 1866, we must pause before we automatically believe them on this issue.

This is my opinion. There is essentially NO difference between a loving committed self-giving relationship between two gay people, than there is between two heterosexuals how also can not procreate.

True love can not be wrong.

Paul, in the Bible, had absolutely no concept of sexual orientation or exclusive homosexuality. He states in Romans that a person FIRST abandons God and then falls prey to his lust. (and gay sex). He had absolutely no understanding that two gay people even could have a true loving relationship. He only saw it as lust (AS does the Catholic Church today officially teaches). Well they were both wrong. For an exclusively gay person, a successful and loving intimate relationship can only be successful with a person of their own sex. God made me gay and i believe that i must be that gay person.

And just because "traditionally" the Church Fathers taught that gay sex was always wrong, these same Fathers also taught that women were not fully human (YES, they said this! See the writings even of Thomas Acquinas) and that they had to be subjest to the authority of men. (Also a Pauline concept).

The Catholic Church NOW teaches that a gay person MAY not live openly as gay. They MUST hide this fact. They MUST live essentially a lie. Otherwise the Catholic Church currently states that to be a good Catholic one MUST discriminate against anyone living openly gay. That all openly gay people must be discriminated as to jobs, housing, military, raising children, even teaching children. They have no concept that the right of religion does in fact HAVE some limits. That they do not have the right to expect legislators discriminate against gay eople, including not allowing them the dignity, respect, and benefits both social and legal of marriage.

(If you doubt some of this I will be glad to send you the actual quotes from Pope John Paul II, and Benedict).

Pope John Paul II stated that all gay people were BY THAT FACT inclined towards evil.

Pope Benedict stated recently, in contradiction to most psychologist on this point, that being gay is a psychological disorder. This same pope also stated that gay people must 'naturally want' to hide their disorder from society, and therefore JUST discrimination is no longer an issue for them. Only openly gay people. How would YOU like to live a lie your entire life?

Most psychologists will tell you that this can be seriously emotionally and psychologically debilitating. It sure was for me.

If it is bad psychology, it must be bad theology.

(See publications of SOULFORCE, a Christian gay support group founded by renowned evangelical Christian author and Christian movie producer, and minister Mel White http://www.soulforce.org/ )

Please note that being gay has been a part of our gene pool forever, and entirelly seen throught the animal kingdom (See: Biological Exhuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity" by Bruce Bagemihl, PhD)

MY gay marriage is good for myself and my partner, and good for society. And more importantly teaches me how to bring true love into this world.

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This issue of gay marriage is NOT as cut and dried as many people think. Note that for over 1700 years ALL Christian churches taught that slavery was totally ok, and even sanctioned by God. They were wrong. And many of them are wrong about this issue. In fact many Christian church now affirm gay marriage as compatible with Christian thought and practice.

Other resources available include:

"Gay Christian 101" by Rick Brentlinger

[See also the website: http://gaychristan101.com/ ]

This is a fairly comprehensive revisit to those five "clobber" passages everyone uses from the Bible to condemn all gay sex.

"The Children are Free" by Rev. Jeff Miner & John Tyler Connoley

"Homosexuality and Christian Faith" ed. by Walter Wink

"Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality" by Jack Rogers

"What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality" by Daniel A. Helminiak

And there are three more books everyone should read to get a true perspective on the difficulties of being gay in a Christian world:

"Stranger at the Gate" by Rev. Mel White

and

"Prayers for Bobby: A Mother's Coming to Terms with the Suicide of Her Gay Son" by Leroy Aarons

“Crisis: 40 Stories Revealing the Personal, Social, and Religious Pain and Trauma of Growing Up Gay in America” by Mitchell Gold

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IAMACATHOLIC is 'spin doctoring' the position of the Catholic Church.

He stated that: "The Church ... teaches that being homosexual is not a sin but that all single people (heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual) are called to celibacy."

Yet he seems to forget that the Church also teaches that a life time of celibacy is a GIFT and that it is ONLY given to those who can maintain this gift. Yet NOW they expect ALL gay people to automatically HAVE this GIFT? These so-called people who are inherently DISORDERED? Note that OVER HALF of the priest in the country do NOT practice celibacy. (See "Celibacy in Crisis" by A.W,Richard Sipe)

This is plain not compassionate or even possible for most of us gay people. In addition gay marriage is a GOOD thing and brings us closer to Christ.

He further stated: "What civil governments decide to do is up to their citizens and the constitution of the country."

However that is NOT what is happening. The Catholic Church is not NOT merely treaching, but spending millions to stop people -- who believe differently -- from obtaining their JUST CIVIL RIGHTS to marriage. And with add campaigns that spout misinformation and sometimes outright LIES!

For example:

1) See what is happening in England right now:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8492597.stm

2) Or that the Catholic Church REFUSING to speak out against the current legislation in UGANDA with the DEATH penalty for being gay, and jail terms if someone doesn't turn in simeine they know to be gay even family members.

http://www.soulforce.org/article/1620

http://www.truthwinsout.org/pressreleases/2009/10/...

There are many more examples like this. Just search the internet.

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And CATHOLIC BY CHOICE; Then YOU too would have been a cafeteria Catholic if say in 1870 you did not follow the church's teaching on slavery, and were not FOR IT.

A person MAY NOT abdicate their responsibilty to form their own true coinscience based an ALL available information. Just merely allowing one to be blindly lead by their 'church leaders' is itself immoral. Look at history and at all the horrific things which proceded from people 'following' their religious leaders.

<<As a Catholic Christian...........? Do you believe in Gay marriage as a Catholic? I know what the church thinks, but what's your personal opinion. I'm Catholic.. and I do believe in it.>>

I don't believe in it - because the Church doesn't believe in in.

I mean, if my personal opinions are going to differ from the Church, what's the point in my being Catholic?

<<I mean I get the whole... Christ made man to be with woman. ect.ect. But I think that he would have made it totally not possible.>>

You shouldn't assume that God is going to make impossible the things that are against His Will.

<<I just.. If someone is happy with the same sex then why deny them their happiness?>>

Perhaps "happiness", in and of itself, isn't the point. . .

Vices aren't good things. And yet, vices often make people (think they're) happy.

Still, the mere fact vices can make (some) people (think they're) happy doesn't mean vice is good.

Hence, vice should be avoided even at the cost of APPARENT happiness.

<<My mom and grandma is totally against it. I just.. I'm not like them. And I DO believe in my religion, its just.. I don't like the whole anit-gay's....>>

Catholics and Catholicism aren't anti-gay. Merley being homosexual isn't a sin. Acts of homosexual sex are sinful no matter the circumstances.

Some Christians don't consider Roman Catholics to be real Christians, and these are mostly protestants. But basically, Roman Catholics are Christian but not all Christians are Catholic. Roman Catholics are lead by the Pope in Rome. Protestants don't recognize the Pope's authority and are organized into thousands of different denominations. The Eastern Orthodox(Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox) also do not recognize the Pope, although their teachings and ceremonies are very similar to the Roman Catholics. The Eucharist is supposed to be Jesus's Body and Blood, it is a Holy Sacrament, a very important part of Catholic church ceremony. I don't believe in it. I can kind of understand the concept but I am not Catholic or Christian. Never be afraid of asking questions of your priest or fellow parishioners.

I agree with you!! And I feel the same way. I really do believe in my religion and I really do try to practice it and go by it the best I can. But there's just some things that I don't agree with (I think every religion has somethings like that).

When I think of God and Christ, I think that they would want me (and everyone else) to be the best that I can be. To not shut someone out just because that person is different than you. I believe that God wants you to follow in Jesus's footsteps the best we can. To love one another and to respect one another no matter who the person is, no matter what the differences are. Because I have to admit, the idea of gay marriage is very different to me and so...unknown I guess. I wasn't raised that way but others are and some are born with it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it!!

There are a few other 'rules' that I don't agree with when it comes to the Church. I mean, is it even in the Bible (it could be, but I've never read the Bible cover to cover and have never referred to It for that reason). I mean, think about it. Would God really want you to dislike someone because of bigger differences? Is that what Jesus did?

No, it is not right. You need to study who Christ is in relation to the Church. This has been some faulty theology taught recently that has to do with the homosexuality problem in this world today. The Church is Christ's bride---the two shall become one flesh---this is how we become the Body of Christ and so if we are his bride why would we marry a man to a man---or a woman to a woman when Jesus was obviously a man and his Church known as the bride is not male but of a female nature in that it is subservient to him. The Blessed Virgin Mary has always been known as the spouse of the Holy Spirit---if we name the Holy Spirit as feminine then we are condoning gay marriage which is what the most recent "inclusive language" garbage has done but this is all a lie from the Evil One who is still busy trying to subvert the one who dips into the dish with Jesus.

That's your choice but it is our choice to consider you a Cafeteria Catholic. And no i do not feel same sex marriage is proper but as long as it is not performed by a Catholic .I'll never consider it a decent normal thing but i will respect there right to live that way but not approve of it. You do understand that being a good Christian does not mean doing what makes you happy or pleases you but doing what Christ wants not our human wants.

No, I do not. Gay marriage is not possible as marriage is only between one man and one woman, no other combinations are possible. Period.

I do believe that there are people either born with or acquire the feelings/desires the predispose a person to a homosexual lifestyle. However I do not believe that those feelings are anything different than other base sinful feelings we may have during our lives. Feelings such as gluttony, lust, jealousy, and anger. None are healthy, but they are all something that we must deal with in order to live out our lives. Like other sinful desires we may have, feelings of homosexuality must be dealt with. Failure to do so can lead to one living in a sinful lifestyle like a "gay marriage" or spending an entire lifetime suffering because its residual desires.

No. Even if the state grants the right to marry to members of the same sex, it's still only a state "marriage" and not a sacramental marriage in the Church's eyes.

I am not a cafeteria Catholic who picks and chooses what she or he wants to believe and practice. A couple of examples are "Catholics" who are pro-abortion and "Catholics" who refuse to accept the teachings of Vatican II.

The Catholic Church believes that God himself is the author of marriage and has created it for one man and one woman.

The Church further teaches that being homosexual is not a sin but that all single people (heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual) are called to celibacy.

What civil governments decide to do is up to their citizens and the constitution of the country.

But the Church has a commission from Jesus Christ to "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, ... teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

In obedience to this command, the Church has been telling world governments what God has taught us about what is right and wrong since the time of the Romans.

For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

About marriage, section 1601 and following: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt3a...

About homosexuality. section 2357 and following: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2a...

http://www.catholic.com/library/gay_marriage.asp

Archbishop George H. Niederauer of San Francisco calls for an end to hate and name calling in the aftermath of Proposition 8, and issues a call for reconciliation based upon trust, respect, and tolerance: http://www.sfarchdiocese.org/about-us/news/?i=1505

Here is a Pastoral Message to Homosexual Catholics in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles from Cardinal Roger M. Mahony and the Auxiliary Bishops of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, December 2008: http://www.archdiocese.la/files/PM-homosexualCatho...

With love in Christ.

civil partnership -yes - as it would be unfair legally if gay couples did not have the same access to pensions etc that married couples get

I honestly couldn't care less what other people do. Gay marriage is as dumb as straight marriage.