DS: Let's talk e collars?

I have used E collars for 30 years, so yes, I have considered them. I use them because there is no better way to reach a dog a mile away if I need to...they are a God sent to serious and intelligent dog trainers the world over.

I use one in a few different ways and I am sure there are others in here that will argue with my philosophies, but, then again, they are MINE and I do get paid for results and so far, there has been no failure.

I have used them in what is called Escape training and it works very well in that regard, if you have the right dog with the right temperament. I have used them as a correction tool after I have already trained the dog to proof it and they work just as great in that respect as well.

Even though these collars have been around a long time, most people have the wrong idea about them and are ignorant of their uses.

I can get into detail here, but, I will say this, I have covered this subject before and only an uneducated trainer will use the E collar to cause harm on a dog and only those that have no idea about training will speak of one negatively.

Yes, I have used a Teletakt to make hair fly off a dog before, but, it needed to happen to benefit the dog in the long run, not that I need to explain anything to anyone in here.

Once again...many people talk about using one, few know how to properly use it to correct, proof and motivate a dog to work properly. Hope I helped.

ADD: A teletakt is an E collar that is not found or sold in the USA, it was widely available in Europe, made in Germany and Ireland, but, because of the PC crap, it is not as readily available anymore.

You can still get it, if you know how and where and basically the WHOLE collar is one stim device, not just the contact points. It has settings that will bring a horse to its knees and works well on even the most "determined" dogs. Used in a high setting, well...

That why I laugh when I hear about people complain about E collars in this country, they have no idea...No E collar that could potentially hurt a dog is sold in the USA, too much liability!!!

ADD: Once again Bobbie L, talking out of ones anal cavity merely to answer a question is not the way to do it, but, I will humor you...I have some REALLY good friends who are deep into herding and they probably know your "infamous" National champion, maybe I can ask them about him and his training. E collars are used by the TOP trainers in the world, all of them, to train NATIONAL champions in REAL life, not playing with sheep. Go learn about training and E collars and then we can address this issue in a educated manner!!

ADD: That is not a Teletakt Curtis, that is the current pussyfication of it, I am looking at one right here, the REAL thing that like I said, its not easy to find anymore, plus, a REAL Teletakt is over a $1.0000 easy!!

ADD: Yep, that one, still have it, Micro 2000 and its a great collar, on the right dog and yes, its the strongest one out there, just not easy to come by anymore with the "green party" taking over Germany!!

How do you use one effectively in training? I treat the e-collar just like a clicker, leash, collar, treats etc. as a tool and not a magic wand. I, the trainer trains the dog, the tool just helps me. Any good tool requires practice and good timing in order for the dog to understand what you want. Without good timing the tool in utterly useless. All it does is confuse the dog. I don't care if the tool is a clicker or an e-collar bad timing is confusing and detrimental to good training.

Why do you use one in training? My arm doesn't have to be as long and I'm too old and fat to run far and fast anymore. I use e-collars to remind my dogs that I have very long arms. After they are collar conditioned, I use them for off leash control and sometimes trash breaking.

Have you ever used one in training? I got my first e-collar in 1989. I used my first e-collar in 1984. Again they are only as good as the trainer using them

Would you ever consider using one? But of course and I also recommend them to people who are having training issues and off leash control. Again the owner needs to be taught how to use them properly just like they need to be taught how to properly use a clicker, a pinch collar or any other training aid.

I love my e collar. :o)

I have a 100 lb dog who is incredibly insensitive to pain. A choke chain might as well be a ribbon with him.

I got an e collar because he was going through the hotwire (never had a dog do that before) to get at rabbits on the other side of the fence, and then taking off. At home he would do anything I asked him to do, after he thought about it for a while, and then decided to humor me.

Now I only need to ask once, and I discovered that he knows how to do several things that I didn't even know he knew.

I now have him where he mostly works on "vibrate" at home, and if he gets out of the yard he RUNS back. I can now walk him on a loose leash in public, and keep his attention on me even when other dogs run by. In the past he has yanked me to the ground in an effort to get to another dog.

When I can afford it I am buying a toy size for the chihuahua. :o)

A long time ago my family had a mutt that we adopted from the local shelter. He was about the size of a Doberman, might have been a doberman mixed.

He was about two years old and I know very well that all of his problems originate from his former owner.

His worst habit was fence hopping, he'd do it even with a leash on. No amount of tugging, saying no, etc. would get through to him. Couldn't hold onto the leash either because it's choke him.

On the other side of the fence was about four feet before you were on a major road.

I actually wasn't too keen on a shock collar at first, but I tried it anyway.

I only had to shock him once and it was when I noticed him bunching up to jump the fence. From that day on until the day he died, I never had to use it on him again. Not even as a warning.

I am glad I came across this post as I have thought of using one but still am in the research mode. Maybe you can give me some advice.

I have a 7 month old Boxer puppy that I take to the park and play frisbee with off leash. She loves to play with other dogs so she ran from me the other day when she saw one. Luckily the dog was friendly as well.

If I use this device is it something that she will need to wear at all times while off leash forever affer, or is it something you use for training, they learn, and then there is no further need for it?

Also is she a too young for it now?

Thanks for any advice.

The explanation on how to use it is more complicated than how NOT to use it. How NOT to use it = Negative Punishment/Escape training. Teaching your dog he will be shocked by you until he "escapes" punishment by complying with a command you haven't even given yet = Falls under "cruel and unusual" punishment. I would liken that to spanking a child and saying "I know you didn't do anything but uhhh...this is so you don't do it"...

Why do I use one? Because it makes life reeeaaally easy. Much easier than a 50 foot lead and prong. And even after that a lot of dogs will act out when off the long lead. You have to train them in a large fenced in yard and walk them down and correct them to teach them "Even though you're not on leash, I will walk you down, I will catch you, and I will correct you 10 times worse". With the e-collar if you're a few hundred yards apart, you can still reach out and touch the dog with a correction for failing to comply (or correct him before even telling him to do anything if you use Escape Training).

Have I ever used one? Almost every day, Dogtra 1900s almost exclusively...although apparently I don't own e-collars or something. (photo of my pup in training wearing an e-collar at 5 months old, it's not turned on, it's simply to get him accustomed to wearing one because the next rumor will be I put puppies in the electric chair)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2760/4193579841_4f6...

Would I ever consider using one? N/A!

-edit- You mean the old...glow in the dark and throw sparks Teletakt. The one with two settings: Worst, and Worstester, LMAO!

http://www.arche-noah.ch/cms/images/content/news/t...

The distance between the contact points alone tells you how powerful that collar is to send a current through tissue that far.

I have had 2 dogs that needed an e collar, both Gordon Setters.

The first was Corey, a fully trained and obedience titled boy. We decided to try our hand at field work. He got the pointing down, but quickly developed the BAD habit of 'bumping' the birds-breaking point and bouncing in toward the hidden birds to flush them. When they took flight, he would chase them.

This happened twice; both times, leaving me scared sh*tless and looking for him for a half an hour or more. The next time we took him out, he wore an e collar. Sure enough, first point, he bumped the birds and went gleefully after them. I gave *one* recall, whch was ignored, and Corey got zapped. (after a warning buzz) It stopped him in his tracks and he turned toward me. Another recall. He took a few steps in my direction, stopped and looked back toward the vanishing covey. ZAP! He got the message and came right back to me.

A short time later, he 'flushed' a doe that had bedded down. Almost from right under his nose, the deer leaped up and took off. Corey started after her, I gave a recall and popped the warning tone button on the remote. He did not hesitate-turned right around and came back. Never had to zap him agasin.

The second was my girl Kharma. When she was about a year old, she develped the habit of counter surfing- putting her front paws up on the counter and grabbing what she wanted. I could always tell by the sound when she was doing it but was never quick enough to get there. Put the e collar on her. When I heard her surfing, she got the buzz/ZAP. She didn't learn as quickly as Corey, it took a couple weeks before she got the message, but she DID get the message.

So yeah... I am a believer!

ADDED:

To Greek: Curious... what is a Teletakt? This is something I have never heard of, and how/why does it make a dog's fur fly?

ADDED:

Ah, gotcha! Sounds like it could be a great thing in the right hands, fortunately I have never had a dog that required that degree of correction. Kharma comes the closest... she is the hardest headed Scotsman I have ever seen!

I've only used one with my current rescue, because after even obedience training (with trainer), I can't get him to stop nipping at my kids when excited (realize in part due to his herding instincts, and my complete and utter failure as a trainer) and digging holes in the yard that an army of gophers would envy. He responds very well on a low setting, and it stops the behavior immediately. I haven't had to put it on him in a while, but probably will in the future, and would definitely always use one if I had training issues I couldn't resolve otherwise

I have used them, but not on my dogs. If I have to bully a dog to train it, it doesn't belong to me, however I have had students with dogs that were simply unmanageable without a e-collar, usually due to ineffectual early training methods, not a stupid or stubborn dog. If the only way to teach a dog to pay attention and come when called (which could save it's life someday), then yes I would recommend using one, but only after I taught them how to use it correctly and effectively. I would never recommend over the phone to simply go buy one and put it on your dog.

My Dog came with an E collar and have only had to use it a few times when his behaviour tests me ,he is small but he jumps fences that is why he came with one.

When my dog even thinks about jumping a fence he is given a zap to remind him that its not acceptable behaviour and it stops him in his tracks

We have had all the usual training issues with out using one and nothing seems to work but i am always aware he is capable jumping fences so keep that in mind