Readers/writers - on popular YA fantasy books...?

I wouldn't be too quick to talk about "teens" as though every teen is the same. I happen to be a teenager (late teens, but still), and I don't need romance in the books I read, I don't put romance in every book I write, and I'm not interested in cliche plots whether I'm writing or reading. There are probably some teens that fit your description, but not all of us :)

I think there's a lot of romance because romance is something we can all relate to. Those currently in romantic relationships love it, those who were in romantic relationships long for it, and those who have yet to be in a romantic relationship dream of it - even if it's secretly. It's something that is innately human about us, and so I believe that authors love to write about it and readers love to read about it. I usually don't read novels that are purely romance and I never write them, but I do occasionally add some romance into my books, and I enjoy a little romance here and there in a novel. I don't _need_ it necessarily, but I do enjoy it.

Cliche plots are the author's fault, not the teens who read it. I don't think you could decide what the 'majority' of teens look for, since everyone is different. (Yes, even amongst teenagers.) I think some teens might like some cliche plots some of the time, and some teens might dislike some cliche plots some of the time. It's really hard to pin down an exact 'favorite' amongst teens.

I personally don't know if epic fantasy is going out of fashion because I could care less what's in fashion. I love to write fantasy, both epic and otherwise, and besides, by the time I get a book published something new will probably be in fashion. I do think that dystopian novels are in fashion right now because I've seen so many of them, but that will change, so I'm not going to write a dystopia just because it's popular right now.

As long as it's not a love triangle, then I'm not one way or another. I absolutely hate love triangles and it seems like every other book out there has to have a love triangle. -_- Personally, I'm fine without the romance. I don't think it's always needed. Sometimes, the romance just gets in the way of things. Stick to the story that is good, not the romance that you don't need and distracts from the original story.

Yep, it seems like that's the case. Notice how each of them lately tend to follow the same thing? I can't tell you how many times I've read a story that is just like Twilight. But maybe with different fantasy creatures. :P It's insane. Really, please, let's get something new instead of the same old cliched thing. I think teens just like what's popular, what's normal, what's been read several times already. Who knows...

I hope not. >.> I would be pissed if it was. Maybe it's just a fad right now. Give it a year or two and we'll see the return of epic fantasy again. :D Hopefully...

I understand where you are coming from, honestly i feel the world of most of "teen fiction" is just mediocre at best. The other day i was visiting Charlotte North Carolina and i went to the gigantic children's library there called Imaginon that is really new and Frilly and stuff. Anyway they have what they call "a loft" which is basically just a whole floor dedicated to "just teens" (12-18) anyway so i was there trying to find a good book that i might actually enjoy. And i was looking and looking and Oh my gosh the books have these stupid plots that are (in my opinion) just over-done and over-used and all are in some way or other featuring some sort of clunky teen romance EX: Twilight, The Pretties, Dreamland and many more that are just awful. And yes teens do favor those cliche plots. (the perfect happy ending or whatever.

Im sorry i get too carried away sometimes its just that most of the teen fiction/fantasy is just horrible and should be placed on the shelves along with all those other really badly written grocery store novels. Sorry i guess i didn't really say anything helpful :[ sorry what i guess i am trying to say is i agree with all that you said.

Stories aimed at teens tend to have romance because teens want to understand romance - they're going through it for the first time, or if they're not going through it, they want to be going through it.

Stories aimed at teens can get away with being less original than a story for adults in the same genre because teens are often discovering that genre. They don't know what the clichés are. Witness all the people who think Eragon is a stunningly original work of fiction.

Also, teens' tastes in entertainment change quite quickly. They might get into fantasy at 13 and read every fantasy they can get their hands on. Then when they're 14, they might find another genre they like better, or stop reading and do something else with their free time. So they're not going to know or care that a book that comes out when they're 15 is very similar to a book they loved when they were 13.

Publishers know all this, and factor it into their plans when deciding which books to publish and how to market them. Most publishers are now owned by much larger companies, who like to see repeatable successes and predictable growth in revenue and profit each year. That's fine if you're making products where the public knows what to expect, but every new book is a different - every one could soar or flop, and it's hard to be sure in advance which it will do. So there's a tendency to play safe and put out books that are just different enough that the public doesn't feel ripped off.

Now - shameless plug time. I'd hesitate to describe my own novel as original, but I've tried to steer clear of the obvious clichés. It's a murder mystery set in a school for wizards. It has some romance, but it's not paranormal - both lovers are human. I think it fits the definition of epic fantasy, though I'm still not sure where the boundaries between all the different subgenres lie - back in my day, we just had fantasy, and we *liked* it that way ;-)

It's called Death & Magic, and is on sale now in the Kindle Store. See my profile for details.

"a book can't do well with a teen audience"

This would be because a "teen" audience is just code for girls 10-15.

Formerly, epic fantasy was aimed primarily at a male audience, so it featured action. With the shift to marketing fantasy to women, it now features romance stories.

I'd say that the male market usually just ends up graduating to adult market books or retreats into comic books. The only real difference between the adult fantasy market and the teen fantasy market is the insistence on teen narrators and characters, something usually dispensed with in most epic fantasy.

I actually like "romance" subplots because it adds another dimension to the story and offers more room for character development and plot complexity. I think teens and women are targeted for romantic subplots b/c they are real life themes in these readers lives...makes it easier to relate to the subject matter. In fantasy, since fantasy is one of the most co-ed genres where both genders read it, they need to include something for everyone.

I'm not sure if teens favor cliches. If they do then a psychologist my argue that kids need stability/familiarity in order to grasp the subject matter. I think it's the market trends that dictate what's being published though. Cliches are a safe bet and are marketable..they sell.

I don't think epic fantasy is going out of fasion. Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, etc..are epic fantasies. I just don't think there are as many books/series in this particular subgenre of fantasy. There are more paranormal and urban fantasies, for instance.

I think that YA books get away with cliche more than adult fiction. "Cliche" by definition means "overdone" and if teenagers are reading plots like love triangles and struggling with attraction they're often reading it for the first time, since they spent their 7-12 year old time reading books about giant peaches and girls who disappear into other worlds with absolutely no sexual tension whatsoever. Something can't be overdone to someone who hasn't had enough experience. An adult, though, can better see a cliche for what it is.

The thing is, teens are focused more on relationships than on anything else, because that's the thing that's newest and most interesting in their lives. What kind of personality turns me on? How do I know if I'm in love or not? What gender am I attracted to? What happens if my friend and I like the same person? What kind of person would like someone like me? How will I know if someone likes me or just wants to be friends? These are the thoughts that dominate the teenage mind, which is why it's not surprising that it dominates the teenage literature genre, even in Fantasy. Granted, since fantasy focuses on other things, the romance tends to be cliche. In order to get a better sense of realistic romance and attraction, one must travel away from YA Fantasy, and go into the YA literary fiction.

often formulas and cliches work

there are relationships in real life. I don't mind romance in books in the subplot where it belongs ;-)

This isn't new many of Heinlein's Juvenals and Madeline L'Engle's books had romance in them.

I heard that The Amish were the next trend after zombies and vampires (like in Paul Levinson's The Silk Code ;-) )

How buys teen books teens or parents and people looking for something that with less cursing than adult books?

That word epic scares me a little doesn't it mean more pages than the big red dictionary with the math tables and the constitution in the back?

Ever heard of the Ranger's Apprentice series? Or Hate List? Or maybe Before I Fall, Wintergirls, Lockdown, Out of My Mind, Story Time, and Octavian Nothing?

All of these are very popular in the YA section and yet, all of them have little to no romance. Not all books young adults read are about romance, though I do agree that many young adults are drawn to romance.

I don't go in the YA section as much anymore, though I'm only 15. The regular adult section is better, the plots are actually original, and the writing is better and better to learn how to write better. I agree with all that, haha.