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Mormons, I took Moroni's challenge and the Holy Ghost told me that the Book of Mormon is not true, and...?
...that the LDS church is not right for me.
How come Moroni only keeps his promise to some people?
Old Timer Too: Hmm, let's break it down, shall we?
"4. And when ye shall receive these things..." i.e. read the book; check.
"...I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true..." check.
"...and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart..." check.
"...with real intent..." check.
"...having faith in Christ..." check.
"...he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost." nope, no check. As stated previously, she manifested unto me the truth of opposite.
Clearly, I met all the "requirements" stated in Moroni 10:4. Or was there also some bureaucratic paperwork I forgot to file somewhere?
Yes, I understand who is who. The speaker in this chapter is Moroni (verse 1 beings "Now, I Moroni..."), so Moroni is making the promise, ostensibly on God's behalf; God is supposed to be the keeper of the promise, THROUGH th
the Holy Ghost ("...that ye would ask God...he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.)
However, I phrased it the way I did because the verse in question is commonly referred to as "Moroni's promise." Asking, "How come God only keeps the promises Moroni makes on his behalf to some people?" sounds pretty awkward, don't you agree?
Ok, now that your nitpickiness is hopefully satisfied and it has been established that I can read, my question remains: How come God only keeps the promises Moroni makes on his behalf to some people?
Is it because Moroni is actually speaking specifically to the Lamanites in this passage? Oh yeah, I noticed you did not include "who the promise was being made to" in your list of things I obviously don't know; perhaps you have forgotten or do not know yourself that verse 1 begins, "Now I, Moroni, write somewhat as seemeth me good; and I write unto my brethren, the Lamanites...&q
Lamanites..."
So perhaps I got a different answer because I am not Native American? But the LDS church does not usually stipulate that Moroni's promise applies only to Lamanites; in fact I have never once heard them do so in all my years spent in the midst of Mormons.
So I guess you are just not able to accept the idea that someone could pray as prescribed and still get a different answer than you. You have to resort to questioning my sincerity, though you know absolutely nothing about me or what I've been through in my spiritual journey. Meanwhile, the sincerity of those who get the "right" answer is simply taken as a given. As long as they are in your tribe and confirm your biases, you assume they are beyond suspicion.
This "you either get the right answer or you're doing it wrong" rationale is kind of a "heads I win, tails you lose" thing, isn't it? If you refuse to take seriously the spiritual experiences and personal revelation
revelations of people of other faiths, then that means you have rigged the game so that you can't be wrong, which you wouldn't have to do if you were in fact confident that your beliefs were true.
Clover: Yes, God herself revealed herself to me. Literally and undeniably. And told me your book is fiction. Next question?
Like Old Timer, you are simply unwilling to accept that anyone other than Mormons can hear from God. But you are wrong, and you will never, ever admit it because your faith hinges entirely on the idea that you belong to the special club with the one and only direct line to God.
You are the one who is insincere. You decided from the beginning that there was only one possible answer, and that is the only one you will accept. If someone else gets a different answer, you demand that they do it again and again until they get the answer you want. That isn't sincerity, it's confirmation bias. It's built into the test itself; Moroni's so-called challenge is insincerity at its worst, and you are a hypocrite.
But you did get one thing right: It is between me and God, and she knows what is in my heart. I do not have to swear anything to you.
Ammon: You expect people to follow all the rules of your religion before they decide whether or not to join it? Weird.
Also, I already GOT a Heavenly answer. You are all acting as if I said I prayed and got no answer. That isn't what I said. I got an answer, you just don't like the one I got, so you pretend I didn't do it right. Ridiculous.
15 Answers
- Anonymous8 years agoFavorite Answer
that's your answer - I've got mine.
What's interesting to hear from other denominations of Christians is what is it in the Book of Mormon that you find disagreeable? The book testifies of Jesus Christ, so I find it interesting when others jump up and say "it's false" while embracing the One it witnesses of.
- AmmonLv 78 years ago
1 Nephi Chapter 15
6 And it came to pass that after I had received strength I spake unto my brethren, desiring to know of them the cause of their disputations.
7 And they said: Behold, we cannot understand the words which our father hath spoken concerning the natural branches of the olive tree, and also concerning the Gentiles.
8 And I said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord?
9 And they said unto me: We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us.
10 Behold, I said unto them: How is it that ye do not keep the commandments of the Lord? How is it that ye will perish, because of the hardness of your hearts?
So therefor my question to you, quite simply, is...
How is it that ye do not keep the commandments of the Lord?
Focus in on keeping the commandments of Jesus Christ.
Do what the Apostles of Jesus Christ did and what Moses did and
what Elijah did and...
what Jesus Christ did.
Fast secretly and privately no food and no water as a habit, a few days a week
maybe even more and then, eventually in God's good time, you will receive a
Heavenly Answer to your question which of all the Churches is Jesus Christ's
true and Holy and righteous Church of Jesus Christ.
First comes faith, then comes the miracle. If you have faith in the truth
then the truth will manifest Himself to you.
Jesus Christ is the truth. And the truth is Jesus Christ.
You will know the truth of all things through the still small voice
which is the Holy Ghost.
If you keep the commandments of Jesus Christ
then you will get the most
in the eternities, if you do what I mentioned in this post.
http://mormon.org/ Chat.
God bless.
- Anonymous8 years ago
Fine however I don't believe you really asked or tried to get an answer because the Holy Ghost wouldn't tell you that. Just reading your flippant statements like they are some checklist is offensive!
I KNOW the Book of Mormon is true and that the LDS church is the only true church. I KNOW that the temple is God's house on earth. I truly have pity for you dude!
Nice rant, Brother Troll!
Source(s): lifelong LDS - CloverLv 68 years ago
Are you willing to swear with an oath to God and man that God himself told you that it was not true?
Literally told you?
I bet you are not.
You put a check by "sincere heart" and that's where I would say the fail happened. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God." Why do I feel this way? Because of the attitude in your post. It's hot and angry.
Plain and simple, this is all between you and God. You say The Holy Ghost told you it was not true. If that's a false statement, then you have broken the commandment of taking the Lord's name in vain. Saying that He said things to you that he did not actually say. That's pretty intense ground to stand on.
I'm not afraid at all to say what I literally heard from God and I know that to deny it would offend him. I will never do that. This is between me and him and I could not deny him.
Plenty of us Mormons are willing to swear on our lives that we heard from God himself on the matter. Literally and not figuratively and not a "feeling" but in actuality we heard and know. The Bible didn't tell us, the Book of Mormon didn't tell us, but God himself through his Holy Spirit with reality did.
So, I know that there is a God. I know that he doesn't lie. He didn't reveal himself to you, now did he.
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- CirrusLv 48 years ago
I took the Moroni challenge and a pizza fell from the ceiling, talk about a quick response!
edit: What Old Timer means, I think, is that you have ask with a sincere heart and contrite spirit, and in humility to Elohim and then by the power of his spirit, who will not be named at the moment, you'll get a pizza.
- ?Lv 78 years ago
You mean... you didn't know the official Moroni "mormon question" is loaded"?? Shame. Darned if you do, darned if you don't. Which is why they say "ask if its true"... not, ask if its true--or not. Better yet, they will NEVER suggest to ask God for HIS truth. Loaded with something... you betcha.
I grew up teething on the bom in Utah, the mormon state. Tried to believe it with my entire being until I was 20. Couldn't. I kept asking and asking and asking, "God, why can't I believe this stuff? My entire world does, so why can't I? Help me! I want YOUR truth above all else--no matter what!" I was never taught to ask God for such a thing while mormon. Neither are they.
The Lord never fails to give liberally to those who ask sincerely. As He promised. Does He lie?
- 8 years ago
SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME !!!
Then the Missionary kid said I wasn't sincere enough or I wasn't worthy enough . Always MY fault , not the Church's.
I said "Thats the POINT !! If I am not a Saint then automatically I am not "Worthy", right ? Thats the whole purpose of starting to go to church, to get right with God !"
Duhhhh !
The Book of Mormon was a very diffiCULT read for me.
1) No Map to help the reader follow along with the stories.
2) the Paintings depicted things like old world walled cities with White looking warriors and steel swords. Not accurate for new world setting. (not to mention Cattle, horses , sheep, pigs , wheat, barley ect. ect. ect. One painting showed Christ with Mayan Pyramids(800ce-1500 ce)that werent even from the same time frame as the BoM(600bce-400ce)
3)Written in King James English which was not the way people spoke in the 1800's. Smith just wanted it to sound like the Bible so he wrote it that way. Very hard for me to BEHOLD , and IT CAME TO PASS that the free copy the Mishie Kids gave me ended up in the fireplace.
After seeing the BoM in flames , the Missionary Kids condemned me to Hell for Eternity. I then cracked open a Starbucks Iced Mocha and ran them off my property and said "You better take that Moroni(c) angel with you or ELSE !"
- Ricardo SantosLv 58 years ago
"Â 42Â And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich, who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches—yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them. "
2 Nefi 9:42
Pride is a great obstacle for the holy spirit teach us something we don´t want to know. I know this by my self. I rejected the LDS missionaries the first time they contact me.
The Book of Mormon is extraordinary.
- MichaelLv 68 years ago
Well.. first you have to read the Book of Mormon and you have to do it with a sincere heart.
You obviously failed in the first requirement for truth. I pity those who judge a book by it's cover, or who rely completely upon other's opinions for their salvation. Not real smart.
- Fact checkLv 68 years ago
I got that same answer as a Mormon. God just doesn't like some of us. Or it's our own fault because we aren't pure enough. Or something else equally nonsensical.
