What do you think? Are some of us too caught up in the "correctness" of language?

1) Are some of us too caught up in the "correctness" of language?

** "I just want to add that, re-reading what I just wrote, I see some mistakes I made. Don't I feel silly." Yes, and it seems you're one of them.

2) Why should we care?

** Maybe you're a professional writer, linguist, or English teacher. In that case, it's your job to care.

3) Is it ridiculous that some of us do care so much about others' use of the language?

** Only to those who hold a very different value system. Others who share your values won't find it ridiculous at all.

4) What is the value in using the English language grammatically correctly, versus just letting nouns and verbs happen?

**Grammar and punctuation are meant to clarify and express your thoughts. Think of grammar as the directions and the punctuation as the road signs. Without either, you'll get lost.

5) Isn't the English language just one, big, organic creature that changes over time, being influenced by culture, word geniuses (Shakespeare, for example), and general social agreement, anyway?

** A creature? No. An adapting system of communication? Yes.

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BQ1: Is there a mistake that drives you up a wall? What is it?

-- Placing punctuation outside of quotation marks. It's like locking the door when it's still open; makes absolutely no sense.

BQ2: If you could make up a word that would be inserted into the dictionary/common everyday speech, what would it be and what would it mean?

-- Humberpuffle: to grumble and heave heavy sighs of annoyance

BQ3: What is your favorite word?

-- Serendipity. Lovely meaning and fun to say. Makes me want to sing: "Dippity do dah, Dippity day, my-oh-my it's a wonderful day, plenty of sunshine heading my way, dippity do dah, dippity day"

BQ4: Anything else that you find interesting that you want to say?

** I find it interesting that higher education awards their students degrees in English if they are anything less than proficient. But University is just a business now. Just like how Mexicans issue doctor licenses without rigorous training.

BQ5: Is there a mistake that you wish we would all just embrace?

** No. People already make up words and it drives me bananas. The other day my mother say "irregardless" and yesterday my employer said "conversate." If anything, I wish people would embrace the rules. haha.

Ah, interesting links. (That's the inner geek in me getting over-excited at the thought of being overwhelmed by definitions of words. Come to think of it, my inner geek isn't so... inner).

Anyway, in answer to your question, I think that some people do have to push the correct use of grammar and language. The way in which *some* teenagers text type is how they type an essay. Seriously. I just think it's wrong, and that while I wouldn't say they're stupid, I would say that knowing how write grammatically correct sentences is something everyone should know how to do.

And - I know this is going off on a tangent but you have to hear this - in my GCSE English class, we were told that grammar and spelling wouldn't be marked! Are they joking!? It's an English exam!

However, I don't think that all books need to be written grammatically correct IF there is point that the author is trying to make. In The Chaos Walking trilogy, the MC was dyslexic so about half of the words were misspelt. Yet, I do know that the author *knew* how grammar and spelling worked and then chose to break these rules. It's different if you don't know how to write properly in the first place.

I understand that the world and the words we use in it are changing; slang changes almost all the time. I can't keep up with it. It's weird because I love to write and read about gritty urban settings, and these books include slang, yet when I hear someone say it out loud I cringe.

I also use the Oxford comma. But I have been told by my English teachers I have a slight comma addiction, so...

Language is definitely influenced by culture, but I think that there will always be a pool of people - writers or not - who won't let "proper" grammar die. Personally, I think when writing for academia or a business purpose then grammatically correct sentences is the way to go. But with fiction I feel as though there is a lot more freedom; I don't mean break rules for the sake of it because the author will end up looking dumb, not the character.

But I do think it's interesting the way that grammar and langauge can be used and manipulated to make certain points in a novel.

BQ - No full stops in a whole paragraph. And I wouldn't mind if five year olds were doing this, but I've seen sixteen and seventeen year olds do this. Just... no.

And when people just shove in some punctuation sign clearly at a guess because they don't know what sign should go there.

And when people use double negatives and think they're using a single negative! "I didn't do nothing." That means you did something! "I didn't say nothing." *Brain explodes in anger*.

I'm going to move on now. *Deep breath.*

BQ2 - Floog. You could use it as anything: An insult, "You're such a floog!" A verb, "Hey, floog that to me, would ya?"

You get the point.

BQ3 - Melancholy. Well, I wouldn't say it's my favourite, I don't think I have one of those, but I definitely like the sounds in contrast to its meaning.

BQ4 - I do want a hippogriff. (When you were giving the example of the Oxford comma use).

BQ5 - Not a mistake as such, but when writing essays I wish that there wasn't a certain way you had to display quotes and the title of a book. Italics or in quotation marks is fine with me. My English teacher went on a rampage making sure we displayed it right. But, I just think that if it looks different from the rest of your essay, what's the problem?

I'm really sorry, that was probably the most boring paragraph you've ever read in your life.

EDIT - @Silly Turtle (or anyone): What is the difference between affect and effect? I've had multiple people explain it to me but... something in my brain just isn't getting it.

Affect is a verb and effect is a... noun? Is that right? I don't know.

EDIT 2 - Thanks, dude! Yeah, your explanation did help :)

Yes, I try to be as diligent as possible with my own usage. I definitely get caught up on others' mistakes, though, because I'm really conscious to how grammar and sentence structure affects the meaning and presentation of content.

So that right there is the first justification for why we should all take care with writing things out. One misplaced comma can change the entire meaning of your statement! Mixing up words etc. can also muddy meanings.

Therefore, I personally think that minding your grammar is polite, because it means that the other person doesn't have to struggle to figure out what you mean. That's also applicable to just plain taking the time to type out words ("you" only has TWO more letters than "u", people of the Internet!). In addition to being inconsiderate of the person you're corresponding with (because they have to decipher your meaning), I think heavily flawed language (in spelling, capitalization, and/or grammar) makes the writer seem lazy and less intelligent even if they actually aren't.

BQ1: Way too many! "They're", "there", and "their", as well as "your" and "you're" drive me bonkers, because IT'S NOT THAT HARD.

People spelling "a lot" as one word irks me.

"Chat speak". I really cannot communicate with people who use "u" and "y" etc. It's just painful. We have full QWERTY keyboards, people; it doesn't take that long to type out those words. (I also imagine it would become a bad habit).

I could go on. I'm very conscious of grammar and spelling. I don't actively correct people, though.

BQ2: I'm not sure if it exists, but I'd like someone to name that particular feeling you get when you think something bad will happen. And then there would be another version of that word, slightly altered, which would mean the feeling when you suspect something bad will occur in a work of fiction you're presently engaged in. Maybe science needs to name that (assuming they haven't).

BQ3: Superfluous.

BQ4: I've had some great English teachers in the past, but I dislike how some can be so literal about grammar. I was bothered by a professor of mine who marked down my short story because I ended a sentence with a preposition. The thing is, you can end a sentence with a preposition in certain contexts (as I was taught).

I ended up dropping her class for other reasons. Ha.

BQ5: A mistake we should embrace, hm.... As long as it's surrounded by proper spelling and grammar, I think incomplete sentences should be forgiven. It often sounds better and more natural. And I've seen it done enough times in books.

I'm going to compare writing to drawing. We've got our not so formal drawings that give you ideas of a better picture - these are sketches. And we've got art that's all cleaned up - these are full drawings. A sketch is not a full drawing. But I have seen some pretty darn good sketches. I consider them quality pieces of artwork. Now we've got your writing with colloquialisms and loose grammar conventions. Those can be a lot like sketches. I feel that writers can get away with "incorrect" writing if it applies to the voice of the narrator. I write in third person, but my narrators still use sentence fragments and start sentences with "and". It's part of the writing style. I break those rules not because I'm ignorant, but because I feel it adds to the story.

Using incorrect grammar because you don't know correct grammar or don't care about grammar is a different story. That doesn't seem professional at all. It completely draws away from the fact you're reading a story when you come across stuff like that (e.g. not capitalizing the word "I" or missing apostrophes like you said). It doesn't feel like it's "meant" to be there. The writer just wrote the way that was easiest for him or her.

Just as drawing is not about what drawing what is easiest to convey, writing is not about writing what is easiest to convey (that's the whole "show don't tell" rule right there :P). Everyday language and writing have different places for a reason. Readers often enjoy writing because it's full of thought. Everyday language typically isn't. But that doesn't mean you can take everyday language and apply it to your story in a professional way.

You can do it in a thoughtful and purposeful way, but I feel it depends on what is being misused and how it's being misused. Your dialogue, of course isn't always going to be full of perfect grammar/language, because your characters will mostly be using everyday language. Who cares if characters say "less" when they should have said "fewer"? I don't care if the narrator does it either. But only if the narrator is supposed to have a relaxed tone or something to that effect. There are some grammar rules or language conventions that I don't want to see misused though. For example... if a writer has a list with commas in each item in the list, I want to see semi-colons. "Sarah wanted to go to Boston, New York, Houston, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio." Versus... "Sarah wanted to go to Boston, New York; Houston, Texas; and Dayton, Ohio." There's a huge difference between conveying with style and confusing your reader.

BQ1: Is there a mistake that drives you up a wall? What is it?

--Affect and effect mistakes bother me. Since I was taught the difference between the two in ninth grade XD But there's not really any single mistake that bothers me that much. Laziness in correcting mistakes bothers me.

BQ2: If you could make up a word that would be inserted into the dictionary/common everyday speech, what would it be and what would it mean?

--Cornster. A person who is extremely corny. "Kevin is such a cornster!" USE IT, PEEPS.

BQ3: What is your favorite word?

--So many beautiful words. I like the word "huzzah", but only in cap locks and with an exclamation point.

BQ4: Anything else that you find interesting that you want to say? :D

--I know that when you've got a name that ends with an 's', it's a preference to either add an apostrophe and the letter 's' or to just add an apostrophe to make it possessive. But I very much favor the later. The double 's' is weird :P

BQ5: Is there a mistake that you wish we would all just embrace?

--Fragments. They're so lovely and can really add to style. I think I overuse them though XD

--Edit--

@DNA: You've got it right! For example, you can say, "That storm affected my house," but not, "That storm effected my house." You can say say, "The storm had an effect on my house," but not, "The storm had an affect on my house." An effect is a physical (or ideological) thing. Effects affect stuff :P Does that help? XD

There's a place for correct English, and there's a place for conversational English. Resumes, essays, letters, manuscripts...these should be completed to the writer's best grammatical ability. But things like texting and Facebook, I don't care unless it's a really dreadful mistake, like "their" instead of "they're." I think, it's fine to correct someone where the writing matters; otherwise, let people write how they write, talk how they talk, etc. Mistakes bother me most in creative writing classes.

BQ1: Misuse of contractions, or mistaking a contraction as another word. They're, their. You're, your. It's, its. Even on Facebook, I find it hard to tolerate. And I get very irritated when the subject and verb/s do not agree.

BQ2: My roommate and I invented the word "analogyze" as in "to relate two seemingly-unrelated things, hoping that one will explain the other." We could be pretty daft sometimes (especially me), and it was not odd for one of us to go on a tangent about how hot lava hardens when it hits water, so if you take the molten gummy bears we microwaved on a plate and try to rinse them off, they'll just solidify and be harder to clean up. After we stuck the word and definition on our fridge, another student pointed out that "analogize" was already a word. I don't care. My word is better.

BQ3: Defenestration. The act of throwing someone out of a window. My favorite German word is Krankenpfleger. A male nurse. My favorite Spanish word is mijo. I'm not sure why, but I like that "my son" eventually morphed into one word.

BQ4: I learned what "defenestration" meant while playing picture-telephone. Not grammar-related, but still hilarious.

BQ5: Using the plural pronoun to describe someone that is neither male nor female, even if it relates back to a singular noun -- i.e."Someone forgot their book." I think the grammar police in the UK decided that when the sex isn't specified, the masculine should be used. I use "he/she" in papers but it sounds funny. I use the plural when I'm talking, texting. That's what comes naturally to me.

You are talking about what makes a memorable writer and a not so memorable writer, there are classics and there are just ridiculous writers, I can't believe they were published! Some writers just can't write at all and I can't read them a few chapters and I hurl the book. I have read such good plots, great plots but the writer cannot write. Aggravating as hell to try to read!

My favorite word is Rectocranialinversion and it means your head up your ***. It is a made up word and does not exist.

Next I would like to mention that the comma rule no longer applies because businesses that write letters have made it so. Not because of any language need, just for business.

With people existing on a spectrum, no matter what trait you are asking about, there are going to be people who either take something too far, or not far enough. That's why the term "grammar Nazi" has been coined. I know people who are incredibly uptight about their grammar and the way others speak, and sometimes being around them can be tiring. But on the other hand, we have my boss, and others like him who don't know the meaning of spellcheck. (He will write long announcements with things like IMORTANT!!!!!!!! PLEASE DO ___ IT IS VERY VERRY IMPORTAT!!!!!!!) It burns my eyeballs.

BQ1: Orientated. I thought that was a made up word, but I looked it up, and it means "to turn or face east". It still drives me mad when I hear it.

BQ3: It changes. For now, it's "intricate". It sounds like what it means and it's fun to say.

BQ4: You need to check this out. http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot...

BQ5: Def. agree with whoever said using "they" as a singular pronoun.

I think we should care to a certain point; sometimes I do forget about the oxford comma. I guess I didn't really use them because for along time I didn't know much about them. Maybe my teachers never focused on it enough for it to stay in my brain.

Other than that I believe the rest of the rules should be followed if not exactly they should be pretty spot on.

BQ1) Well it's a mistake I'm trying to overcome myself and that's adverbs.

BQ2) Tyrannosauriffic: It's the supreme greatness of all things. This question is Tyrannosaurifficly awesome.

BQ3) Shadow: For some reason it's always stuck with me as a word. I like to say it, think it, and hear it.

BQ4) Merry Christmas! JK! My favorite flavor of Ice Cream is a Grand Idea. I love me some Idea Soup. Okay the end.

BQ5) Not really, mistakes are bad for our health unlike Grand Idea Soup and Ice Cream.

Writing is a tool to get your message across, and should be used correctly.

Bad writing causes misunderstandings and headaches.

Language was created to fit the needs of a certain time so i see no near end to the arguments of such a question although i believe we should try to stick to correctness as much as we can although when it comes to a time-sensitive issue then it should definitely be resolved.

PLEASE ALL OF YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION!!!!!!!!

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=201307...