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Who, how, and where is the Winter Solstice determined to happen at exactly 12:11 Ct 12/21/13?

What equipment is used?

Update:

Okay! There is the (US) naval National Astronomy (?) the oldest in the US that guides missiles, etc.

The sun only moves 1/64 of it's diameter per day on the Winter Solstice. Who places the return of the suns movement from South to North at exactly 12:11 Central time? How? With what equipment? I can place the event to perhaps 12 hr. just using a spot on the horizon. I can't even attempt a minute resolution!

Update 2:

I'm not giving points out for ink! I have searched and this answer outside of contacting the people who do print astronomical observer's calendars (not a bad idea? ...I haven't yet ordered my 2014 AO Calendar!)

Update 3:

Opps! 1/60 angular diameter for event day observation (movement/day) that resolution would give perhaps 30min time frame? ..but of course averaging back from days back would give ? 15 minute resolution? Naw! more like 4 hours!

Update 4:

Maybe I'm being harsh! I have built sundials with resolutions of 15 seconds. Turn that on it's side and the resolution of Solstice would be in the range of perhaps 50 minutes. If it happened on the middle of my event horizon. Add optics and perhaps expect 15 minute resolution?

Update 5:

l excellent answers! But I'm going to thank and choose acetek because his web page reminded me of Eratostenes who in 195 BC used mathematics to figure the size of Earth, the distance to the Sun and the Moon.

Acetek's site mentioned cities placed near the tropic of Capricorn. Think in Egyptian terms! Find a high building and look threw the neck of a deep water vessel filled only a few inches deep and see your reflection along with the sun by your head. Move slightly South and observing threw generations your shadow will never be reflected by the image of your head. Move North and you will infrequently see your head covering the suns reflected image twice a year! In a few years you will have found the (now) tropic of Capricorn and the distance the sun travels North in 24 hours of the Winter Solstice! Divide that distance by 24 for hours or 1440(min.) or 86400(sec) in 195 BC you would have a resolution in seconds to determine exactly what day to celebrate the Solstice unless

Update 6:

(out of space?)

Update 7:

the event took place between 11:59.59 and 12.01.01 (if you had a clock) every few millennium then you would gather the high priests and flip a coin! All possible back in 195 BC. you could have the ability to know the event within a second (if you had a clock).

4 Answers

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  • 7 years ago

    High precision statements of the time of the solstices is done from mathematical formulas for the movement of the Earth and Sun. The formulas are calibrated from telescope, radar, and space probe observations, with new data and new formula being figured every year or two. The formulas are accurate to a small fraction of a second and about 1 km in planet or sun positions, for a few years after they are published.

    From the formula, the apparent right ascension of the sun is 18h 0m 0.00s, at 17:11:01.5 Zulu, or 12:11:01.5 CT.

    P.S. The old definition, of the sun directly over the tropic of Capricorn, has not been used by astronomers for several centuries. That is, as you point out, difficult to measure. The sun is over latitude -23.57617 degrees (plus or minus 0.00001 degrees = 0.036" = 1.11 meters on the Earth's surface) from 16:09:46Z to 18:11:38Z; the mid-point of that time span is 17:10:42Z, about 19 or 20 seconds before the official solstice time. To actually measure this directly, would take a 3.8 meter solar telescope. Such a thing does not exist, although a 4-meter one is planned.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Technology_S...

    P.S. #2. A very good amateur telescope setup *might* be able to measure when the sun is at its southernmost point, to an accuracy of 20 minutes. I would have my doubts about that, however.

  • Fred
    Lv 7
    7 years ago

    First, are you referring to the US Naval Observatory? Or something else? Because what you have there, seems to be a portmanteau of several actual organizations.

    Secondly, what motion of the Sun are you referring to ('1/60 angular diameter per day')? It moves about [1º ≈ 2 of its diameters] per day, year-round, against the background stars. In its north-south motion, it is exactly stationary at both solstices.

    It all boils down to celestial mechanics -- the application of Newton's Laws of Motion and Gravity to the motions of major bodies in the Solar System. And it isn't based on any single observation of anything, no matter how precise.

    For this purpose, that's mainly just the Sun, Earth and Moon. When one of these is said to be in some precise location, it is the centroid of that object that is at that spot. Now the motions of all the major Solar System bodies have been tracked quite precisely for centuries, and especially so, since the era of spacecraft observations. Each orbit is an ellipse, to first approximation, and there are six orbital elements that describe the shape and position in space of that ellipse, and where the body lies along that track at any given moment. And in a two-body system, those 6 orbital elements would never change.

    But there are several large bodies in the Solar System that interact with each other and with the Earth in ways that are quite significant over time. So these interactions need to be taken into account, by techniques broadly falling under the term, "perturbation theory." Doing this, leads to the second approximation, in which formulas are found to give the relatively slow changes in those orbital elements with time. This allows for very good predictions of positions ("ephemerides," pronounced, "eff-em-AIR-uh-deez") to be computed.

    The Moon, however, presents some special problems, because, together with the Earth and Sun, it forms a pretty complex 3-body system. The same laws still apply, of course, it's just harder computationally to apply them well. Not to mention, that when it comes to motions of these 3 bodies, ocean tides on Earth start to play a role in the total energy and angular momentum of the system, and this has an effect on the Moon's orbit.

    One of the best ways to sharpen the ephemerides of this system, is by careful observation of solar eclipses, and that trick has been used for centuries. Just as useful, and more numerous, are timings of occultations (covering up) of stars and planets by the Moon.

    In determining the times of equinoxes and solstices, the Moon is important, in that its mutual orbit with the Earth, consists of both bodies orbiting a common center of mass (CM), which is about 3000 miles from Earth's center, or about 1000 miles below its surface. It is that CM that orbits the Sun in a steady motion, so that the Moon can effectively advance or delay the Earth in its path around the Sun, which can advance or delay any given equinox or solstice by several minutes.

    Putting all this together allows calculation of an equinox or solstice accurate to the minute, if not better.

    And OBTW, it was 11:11 CST = 12:11 CDT = 12:11 EST = 17:11 UT.

  • 7 years ago

    The "moment" of (boreal) winter solstice is the moment when the subsolar point on earth is as far south as it's going to get. Thus, the observing equipment is not very complicated at all. The predictions are based on years of observing, and of course take into account the leap years and other much smaller perturbations such as the precession of the perihelion.

    I'd be surprised if the predictions are wrong by even a millisecond.

  • Anon
    Lv 7
    7 years ago

    Simple historic observation and calculation.

    Source(s): 20-10 hrs GMT.
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