Does anyone here believe the birds evolved from dinosaurs?

There is an excellent article refuting what you've stated on the talkorigins web cite.

"Swinton, an evolutionist and an expert on birds, states: The origin of birds is largely a matter of deduction. There is no fossil evidence of the stages through which the remarkable change from reptile to bird was achieved (Swinton 1960). Romer has said that: This Jurassic bird [Archaeopteryx] stands in splendid isolation; we know no more of its presumed thecodont ancestry nor of its relation to later 'proper' birds than before (Romer 1968)." (p. 114)

Both Swinton and Romer were writing some 16 and 8 years, respectively, before Ostrom's (1976) seminal work on the relationships between Archaeopteryx and maniraptoral dinosaurs. Their comments are no longer representative of current thinking on the origin of birds, nor the ancestry of Archaeopteryx...

It also refutes your claim that bird fossils are found in earlier layers than dinosaurs. You should really check it out.

You said... "First, in the transition, you would have an animal whose front legs are part legs and part wing. It wouldn't be able to walk or fly."

Birds can both walk AND fly so why would a transitional form not be able to do either?? think about what you are saying with at least a modicom of logic... The theropod dinosaurs birds are believed to be descended from walked upright in a bipedal fasion anyway, so during the transition it wouldn't affect the animals ability to walk if its front legs were becoming more wing-like. Also look at birds such as the Ostrich, they can't fly but they can walk... Another note.. For crying out loud modern birds have scales on thier legs today, and many dinosaurs had feathers... Finally dinosaurs were NOT reptiles....

PS The evidence you cite says there is no fossil evidence of the STAGES... there are however dinosaurs with feathers. Now name one other creature besides birds which have feathers today.. NONE. How could there not be a connection?

Yes, they did evolve from a particular group of dinosaurs. But more important is how you phrased your question. For scientists, this is not a question of belief. Based on the scientific evidence that we have available to us right now, there is more than sufficient reason to state that birds evolved from a group of dinosaurs. That is not to say that the prevailing scientific view won't change in the future, but that's part of what makes science so great - it's constantly seeking the truth and not settling for things as they are now just because it feels right.

"First, in the transition, you would have an animal whose front legs are part legs and part wing. It wouldn't be able to walk..."

That is patently and obviously false. Anyone who has seen a T. rex skeleton can clearly tell that the forelimbs are not used in walking.

W E Swinton was director of the Royal Ontario Museum from 1963-1966. Hardly current information. Further, the institution is "The Natural History Museum". The quote, which is slightly altered, dates from 1960, 16 years prior to critical research on Archaeopteryx which clearly established its relationship between birds and dinosaurs.

In all, thank you for yet again demonstrating that creationists rely on deception.

God had nothing to do with it.

You use "dinosaurs" and "reptiles" interchangeably, which is a mistake. Birds are thought to have evolved from an order of dinosaur, but many paleontologists like to think of birds as dinosaurs themselves. There are even dinosaurs that had feathers but did not have wings, so anyone with a brain can see that they are obviously closely related.

There is plenty of fossil evidence. Haven't you heard of archaeopteryx?

I'm getting a bit tired of creationists and their pea-brained logic.

A lot of people in my church and in my whole religion believe that dinosaurs did not even live on this planet. In the scriptures somewhere, it is said that God made the Earth out of other planets. So a lot of people I know believe that dinosaurs were on a totally different planet and were just an experimentation planet for God. Once the dinosaurs died, he took parts of that planet and parts of other planets and meshed them together to create Earth. Makes some sense, doesn't it?

But scientifically thinking, I think that dinosaurs came from birds. There are plenty of fossils that show winged lizards that could actually glide and maybe even fly! How do they know they had wings? Well, their bodies got pressed between rocks and then left the impression of their bodies with feathers on the ends of their arms. Their "arm" bones are even hollow inside, thus proving that dinosaurs really could have been the ancestors of birds.

This is a very good example of someone completely misunderstanding a theory and concluding that god did it. Scientists based that information upon bone structure studies and motion studies in birds and reptiles. They found that the mechanisms used for motion in birds and reptiles were SIMILAR. So similar in fact that they left a theory open for people to challenge.

If humans can evolve from single-celled organisms, why in the world would you doubt that birds could evolve from dinosaurs? They had MILLIONS OF YEARS to evolve. I think people don't conceive of how long that is. MILLIONS OF YEARS PEOPLE!!!

So, what about the archeoptryx? This is the example of the evolutionary step from dinosaur to bird.

http://www.exn.ca/dinosaurs/story.asp?id=199705210...

atheist (THINK)

$ * hit changes all the time why is that such a huge issue???

there are plenty of fossils discovered that where ancient dinosaur birds!