How can there be any redemption if there is no forgiveness?

Hmmm, I think I understand what you're asking. Can there be redemption for an act or instance that is unforgivable? If you are religious I think that redemption without forgiveness is possible. In relationships people need to forgive to move on so I believe that people have to forgive one another before they are able to be redeemed.

I hope that I understand your question correctly.

First of all, redemption has really nothing to do with forgiveness. Redemption is about paying a price for the faults, or sins, of someone. A non-religious redemption example is when a pawned item is paid for, and returned.

Religiously speaking, mankind needed to be redeemed, because of his own sinfulness, and for the sin of Adam (the original sin). The beautiful and loving relationship that had existed in the beginning, was broken. There was a price to be paid, before the relationship could be repaired. Thus, the need for the Redemption.

Jesus paid the price of our Redemption, totally unconditionally. Even if no one had ever been sorry for anything ever, the price would still have had to have been paid, and the price would have been paid.

Jesus, God made Man, paid the price, because, as a real Man, He represented mankind, and became the second Adam. The first Adam had refused to love, and had disobeyed. The Second Adam (Jesus) loved totally, and obeyed.

Jesus, the Son of God, paid the price, because the sin was so great, and had had such enormous consequences, that only God could undo the damage.

So, the Redemption was made by God the Son, dying on the cross.

Now to Salvation. Salvation is getting to Heaven. Salvation is not possible without forgiveness, and forgiveness is not possible without true sorrow. God can, and will forgive any sin, provided the sinner is sincerely sorry. God cannot forgive unless true sorrow is present.

Jesus redeemed us, and so the payment has been made, to God, to reconcile us with Him. Jesus saved us, and so our way to Heaven is now possible. We are not saved by simply stating, or sincerely believing, that we are. Our actions must reflect love towards, and obedience of, God.

Nor are we saved against our wishes. God does not force us to love Him, and He does not force us into Heaven.

Our relationship, with God, should show love, and a willingness to obey. If we truly love Him, obey His commands, and sincerely repent of our sins (even up to the last moment before death), we can abide eternally, with Him, in Heaven.

Redemption can take place without forgiveness. The Epistles of Paul talk a lot about this. There's this thing called Grace and because of God's grace it blankets sin to those who have not repented for it yet. But Grace doesn't give somebody a ticket to sin as much as possible as Paul states in Corrintheans.

Plus how can one be a decent Christian and not repent and ask for forgiveness? It plainly states that when one Christian repents (turns away) from the sins he is committing the entire Heavens rejoice compared to the hundreds of other Christians who have not repented yet.

To be a Christian is to believe. To be a better Christian is to attempt to follow in the steps of what we were taught in the Bible. But only the best Christians recognize that they are sinners and attempt to repent and turn away from the things that allow them to sin.

There are 15 scriptures in the Bible related to 'forgiveness'. There are 8 scriptures related to 'redemption'. Only one scripture is identical in both. It speaks about God directly:

"For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins". (Col 1:13-14)

When I read this, it says that God has rescued us who love His Son and believe that He alone is the Redeemer of our sins. Therefore, if we believe that Jesus has done this for us, our sins have been forgiven. Redemption has already taken place; the forgiveness has also. We, in turn, give thanks to Him and to our Father in heaven. I'm sorry, but why I have certain beliefs, stays between my Lord and myself.

Since you claim no religion, I'll just make a disclaimer here that states that this would be the Christian biblical response.

As is seen in the Old Testament, there is a process to the cleansing of one's sins. The Israelites were required to offer a burnt sacrifice to atone for their sin, and then they were required to ask forgiveness. Basically, a two-step process.

With the coming of Jesus, this process is still continued, but Jesus came as the perfect sacrifice, atoning for all of your sins and your potential to sin. Because of this, we have no need of bringing burnt sacrifices, but we are still required to repent. And just as sin is continually before us, we must continually repent.

There can be if God says so. When you make up all the rules, there arn't any rules holding you back. God coulda just created us all straight into heaven as perfect angels, 'cuz he's the all powerfull can-do-anything God.

Its just like playing Calvinball.

He just chose not to for some sadistic reason.

Either that or maybe he's not real.

Forgiveness is the beginning of redemption. Resurrection is the completion of redemption.

particular; I even have supervised a great variety of people over the years and found that the reason of lax ethical and ethical standards between Christians is the perspective they're sinners. Any group of persons that could desire to subjugate themselves to the whims of a sky daddy are incapable of being themselves, they stay in a make have faith international the place 'all is forgiven'. supply me an atheist or pagan any day; they artwork greater good and are greater ethical and ordinary: The theory that asking forgiveness makes all of it ok is definitely the worst philosophical nonsense to be accompanied in the international and it is user-friendly to in user-friendly terms have imagined the moral experience of the inventor!

Someone can not forgive you for something, yet save you if you are in trouble.

I'm just using this as a smaller example so it is easier.

in turn.

Let us say God does not forgive someone, but chooses to save them anyway, why is this not possible?

In the Bible they go hand in hand, by asking for forgivness we have redemption -- God Bless !