Why is that Messianic Jews and other Jews don't get along?

The answer to your question is rather complex as lines have been blurred and definitions changed over the years--yet all the while, people keep maintaining things are as they have always been. It's like working in an office where procedures do 180 degree flip-flops, yet when you ask when they started doing things a certain way and the workers say "this is the way we've always done it".

First of all, let's look at where Judaism is currently on the question of "who is a Jew"?. Some people like to perpetuate the false notion that Jewishness is only a matter of religious belief alone, and they'll even play the "anti-Semitism" card on you and compare you to Hitler if you don't swallow that idea wholesale...but that's obviously just a smoke screen as you can be a complete atheist and still be a considered a Jew. There are totally non-religious Jews and even homosexual Jews who are still considered Jewish, so Jewish identity obviously goes far beyond simply a matter of religious belief or even practice. Jewish identity involves being a part of the House of Israel, a son or daughter of Abraham, and being a part of Jewish peoplehood. Yes, people of other races and ethnic backgrounds can join the House of Israel, but when they do, it is assumed that they are becoming part of a Jewish heritage--not just changing religions. They'll tell you that if you converted to Judaism or if your mother was a Jew, then you're a Jew--even if you subsequently stop practicing the religion---but then they'll turn around and look at someone whose mother was a full-fledged practicing Jew and who grew up in a synagogue and say he somehow "quit being a Jew", just because he believes in Jesus. I know it sounds crazy, but this is really what is being perpetuated.

Now let's look at Christianity. Christianity was considered a branch of Judaism from its inception, and so it was. Jesus was a Jew. The apostles of Christ were all Jewish. Thousands of Jews were believers in Jesus. Even the Apostle Paul, the "apostle to the gentiles" was a Jew. Unlike Buddhism, Paganism, Hinduism, or Islam, Christianity was a direct outgrowth of Judaism, and the early Jewish believers in the Jewish messiah never "stop being Jewish" or "morphed into gentiles" (as though that would even be possible), or somehow "gave up" their Jewish identity or status.

Things came to a head after the "Bar Kochba" revolt against Rome. Simon Bar Kochba was proclaimed to be the messiah. Jewish believers in Jesus refused to march under the banner of a false messiah and defected. Because there were so many thousands of Jews who believed in Jesus, their refusal to support a false messiah had devastating consequences for the revolt. The Jews lost and were barred from Jerusalem. At that point, Jews who did not believe in Jesus began pretending that those who DID believe had somehow "lost their Jewish status" or "stopped being Jewish" and had somehow turned themselves into non-Jews. This silliness continues to this very day, and it often rips families apart.

We've come a long ways since the days when a young lady who accepted Jesus as the Messiah was drummed out of her own family, who might even have a funeral, bury a coffin, and sit shiva for her and pretend she was dead, but we still have a long way to go. Attempts are still made by members of the Jewish community to disenfranchise and "drum out" Jews who come to believe in Jesus, as though simply merely THINKING something could do what even denying God himself or spitting on his commandments and living an abominable lifestyle could not do--that is cancel and disannul someone's own Jewish heritage. That's right, they will pretend that you're no longer a Jew, simply because you have come to believe that a particular Jewish man is the promised Messiah who fulfills Isaiah 53. The hostility comes in when Jews who believe in Jesus refuse to allow these people to dictate to them what their heritage is, and when they refuse to let themselves be stripped of their Jewish identity by those who would redefine them.

Members of the Jewish community who do not believe in Jesus try to pooh-pooh Messianics as simply "playing at Judaism", but this is not limited only to Messianic Jews--it happens with others as well. For example, EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has ever converted to Judaism in ANY branch of Judaism other than Orthodoxy is considered a non-Jew by the entire Orthodox branch, no matter what they believe or how Jewish their lifestyle is. If your grandmother was a ger who converted to Judaism in a Conservative synagogue, your mother was raised in an entirely Jewish home with a kosher kitchen and mezuzim on the door posts, and Judaism was all you had ever known, you would STILL be considered a gentile by every Orthodox Jew alive. So don't pay any attention to the whole ludacrous debate---if you know what you are, it really doesn't matter who tries to redefine you, and what other people think is their problem, not yours.

My Friend There iArn't any Messianic Jews Judaism does not recognize Jesus fact. They May Study the Torah, and the Scriptures. but they study Judaism incorrectly as they Do not understand the fundamentals of Judaism But they do not follow Judaism and they do not Follow Christianity Perhaps they Should Study the Scriptures a Little More They could Support Israel.. Has nothing to do with their Faith.

The Black Hebrews/Black Israelites also consider themselves Jewish. That doesn't make them Jewish. The Christian Identity groups think that they are the true Jews. They aren't either.

It simply doesn't matter what a group "considers" itself if it doesn't meet the definition of what it claims to be. In this case, not only do the Messianics' beliefs separate them from Judaism, they are a perfect match for another religion, Christianity. After all, the definition of a Christian is simply: "one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus [as the messiah]." (Webster's Dictionary)

I know you claim to celebrate the Jewish holidays, but even there I would disagree. To take Pesach as an example, Messianics believe that it is a celebration that symbolizes the crucifixion of Jesus. Other holidays are given similar Christian interpretations. Pesach has no such associations in Judaism. By the way, other Christian groups have similar celebrations without claiming that it makes them Jewish.

So why is it that Messianic Christians and Jews don't get along? Because the Messianics are falsely claiming to be part of a religion that they are not, while denying that they are part of a religion that they are.

Until June of 1975 there were no "Messianic Jews", they were called "Hebrew-Christians". This was done in accordance with a vote lead by Martin Chernoff, then President of the Hebrew Christian Alliance of America, which he turned into the "Messianic Jewish Alliance of America". ,

Changing your name 39 years ago, but not any of your beliefs, doesn't change your religion from Christianity into Judaism.

Whether you are or aren't a Jew according to Halacha (Jewish Law) isn't relevant, the religion you are practicing is not Judaism. At worst you are an observer of Avodah Zara, a middle route just makes you an apostate, at best you are a Tinkok Shenishba (someone who is Halachically Jewish, but because you were raised by non-Jews and are ignorant of the religion you are not held as accountable for those actions which violate Jewish Law).

Also, many (all?) Messianic "Jews" will consider themselves Jewish if their father is Jewish, while Judaism holds only maternal descent is legitimate. So depending on your personal details, you may not even be Jewish 'ethnically' as you put it.

There's an old joke; ask two Jews a question about Halacha and you'll get 3 opinions. The fact that it is universally agreed upon by *all* Jews around the world demonstrates how completely antithetical your beliefs are to core Judaism.

Tell me, if a Hindu decided to have a Bris, followed every single aspect of Halacha, but still believed in G'nesh, would they be Jewish? Would you consider them Jewish even if they might technically be Jewish from maternal descent? If a Jewish G'nesh movement began, would you consider it a branch of Judaism? Even if the "Jewish G'nesh-ites" never even once disrespected or denounced Judaism verbally, wouldn't the very fact that they are calling themselves "Jews" be considered disrespectful to Judaism? If they had the same exact beliefs and called it by a different name, do you think you would care about them in the least?

That's what you are, the equivalent of a "Jewish G'nesh-ite". Despite your actions which are often similar to that of an observant Jew (yet often not more than skin deep because of the Christian meanings you give to many Jewish customs) your religion is completely alien and incompatible with Judaism, just like the "Jewish G'nesh-ite".

Call your religion something else, go back to calling yourself Hebrew-Christians and most Jews will no longer care what you do or say. It's because you're claiming to be part of our religion, when you're antithetical to it, which is why it has to be made clear you are not Jews, and are denounced as such.

Ok, I am not Jewish or Christian (I'm Native). But from listening (reading) what Jewish people have said (wrote) over again I think I can give an example to one of your questions. You asked why you are seen as the bad guys. Christians believe that they should go around the world converting people. You all see this as doing a good thing. I imagine people like yourself think it is good to do this in the Jewish community. Other people who (like myself) are not Christian see this as an attempt to destroy and annihilate our beliefs and culture. I would imagine that for Jewish people, such an attack on their culture is twice as hurtful when it comes from someone like yourself. To relate that to my personal experience it is like when I tell a Christian bent on converting me "No thanks I am Lakota" and they say "I know native people who are Christian, you can be Native and Christian". Well in my opinion you can't. Our teachings are clear on not mixing teachings. I find when my own support such tactics it just reinforces this belief amongst other Christians. Like my people Jewish people believe you can't mix religions, you are saying it is OK and that harms the traditions and age old beliefs. If you did not try to convert or say that your beliefs were the same I am sure the attitude would be different because it would be personal choice.not sayingng they would view you as Jewish, just not view you as a bad guy.

I hope I did not step on toes in trying to draw parallels in experienceses, as that was not my intent.

Because Messianics aren't Jewish enough.

Ya know the same way how Catholics and Protestants argued about how the other party isn't Christian enough.

with all due respect, as far as judaism is concerned, messianic jews are apostates and converts to christianity. you can call yourself what you want and consider yourself what you want, but according to judaism, you've left the fold.

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queen kira, that's total drivel. no jewish rabbi or scholar would dare say any bit of the tanak is to be ignored or hidden... it's just not interpreted or read the way you read it.

the freak:

you say you observe the jewish holidays, but you also participate in communion, which is in a way accepting jesus as deity, accepting the trinity, thus negating the jewish principle that god is one.

you say that judaism would rather accept an "athiest" (should be atheist) or agnostic, than a messianic. not many "atheists" would struggle to be recognized as jews. and they have not actively gone to believe in another god.... so it's still acceptable by judaism.

as to agnostics, judaism encourages questioning, but not apostasy.

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remember the story of elijah and the prophets of baal?

that's the guiding principle. the people of israel in those days thought that they were following the israelite religion while at the same time worshipping the baal. as far as judaism is concerned, that is what you're doing.

Considering yourself Jewish doesn't make you Jewish. You have to be Halakhically Jewish in order to actually be Jewish. And even if you did have a kosher Jewish mother, because you're a "Messianic Jew" whose sole goal is to convert real Jews to Xny, the Halakha disowns you. You're a "meisis" (apostate). You deserve Kareit. You are the prime example of someone who doesn't enter the world to come. You are NOT Jewish.

answer: Because the majority were never Jewish, did not convert to Judaism and aren't qualified to convert to Judaism.

Just as you aren't. You hold beliefs that are considered blasphemy in Judaism.

Jews rarely tolerate people falsely claiming to be Jews.

EVERY branch of Judaism, the State of Israel, the great Rambam and the US military agree: "Messianic Jews" are NOT Jews.

Disrespectful - twisting and inserting Jesus into Jewish holy days and rituals, falsely calling yourself a Jew, claiming that a Jew can worship someone/something other than G-d, attempting to trick Jews into converting = disrespectful and dishonorable behavior.

In the document ‘What Evangelical Christians should know about Messianic “jews” , Martin Meyer, founder of 'jews' FOR JESUS: reveals:

‘We are an arm of the local **Church**. We are Evangelists. We are accountable to the Church. As we win and ***convert*** Jewish people, we urge them to take their place in a local Evangelical **Church**, or establish a congregation. Our duty is to aid the **Church** at large and to gather in the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.’

Do you honestly think that Judaism is nothing more than rituals to be gone through? That the meanings are something you guys are able to change to suit yourselves?

Do you have any idea how rude that is?

I received the rites of baptism, first communion, reconciliation, and confirmation. I'm ethnically Catholic on my maternal side going back at least five generations. Does that entitle me to say that Catholic doctrine got a wee bit ahead of itself on the Messiah thing and it's possible to be Catholic and still waiting, to say that Jesus gave it a go but didn't succeed, that his death precludes him as a candidate because that criteria applies to every other candidate and it's a bit daft to change the rules for just him? My parents would be ever so relieved to think that I was back in the fold. I wonder if there are any Still Waiting Catholic churches near them, maybe I can convince them to join me.

What do you think, is that alright?