Serious question. With the declawing of cats on it's way to being banned, is there a darker side?

You would be surprised how many people on the dog side are against docking and ear cuts- it is illegal in the UK now actually (and thankfully!).

I suppose there is a potential back alley market that could open up for declawing, the same way there has for abortions, but surely the number would be lower than it is now, so I'd call that a net gain in the end.

No, I do not see shady veterinarians risking their reputations and careers to perform back-alley declaws just to make an extra couple bucks. Most of the vets I know do not support declawing anyway. Not to mention that it is a complicated major surgery and if it is outlawed then vets will not get trained in it. There are plenty of countries where declawing is already illegal and as far as I'm aware "black market" declaws are not a problem. People just learn to live with clawed cats, which is not that hard to do when you can just clip the cat's nails once or a week or put on nail covers.

As for docking and cropping, plenty of people think it's barbaric, but at least its original intent was in the best interests of working dogs to avoid injury, not just to make life more convenient for their owners. Plus dogs don't have to walk on their ears or their tails.

**Added** If someone was cruel and stupid enough to try sawing off their cats' toes at home then I kind of doubt the legality of the action would matter to them. I see the point you're trying to make but I don't think it's valid. No matter how you pitch it, you can't compare declawing to abortion. Not only are they very different in the amount of skill and tools required to perform the procedures, but they are done for extremely different reasons (obviously) with different levels of motivation. Maybe I'm being naive, but I simply can't imagine the kind of desperation a person would need to get a back-alley abortion in somebody who wanted to get their cat declawed because they're too lazy to clip the animal's nails.

And, as many people including myself have already said, there are plenty of people and organizations that are against tail docking and ear cropping. Most European countries have outlawed the practice altogether, so I'm not sure how you can say it is "accepted" and "a double standard."

I do not think that making declawing illegal will create any 'black market' vets who will declaw on the side. As someone else said, why would they risk their reputation for something so silly? It takes a LOT of money, a LOT of time and a LOT of work to become a vet. I really don't see a vet doing something so dumb.

I think what it WILL do, is discourage people who previously bought cats and declawed them from getting a cat at all. Honestly, if you can't deal with what comes with a cat then you shouldn't get one.

I do not think declawing is comparable to docking tails and ears. Why? Because it is...

1. Done when the puppies are very young.

2. Done for (at least what used to be) a purpose.

3. There really is not an alternative to docking/cropping as there is for declawing.

I fully support declawing bans. However, I think that people may euthanize or abandon more cats. That is why I think it is very important (like another poster mentioned) to have cat classes, or someone way to educate people.

Tail docking in some cases actually has a purpose. Some working breeds will have their tale damaged when working and it will cause them much more long term pain if it is broken and not docked. I feel there is no point in ear cropping.

On working dogs, docking of tails and cropping of ears was done because of the type of work being done by the dog. A long tail or large ears were a safety hazard. It continues because that is how the bred is expected to look. Tail docking and ear cropping has been banned in many European countries and Australia.

De-clawing of cats is done for no safety or aesthetic reason. It is because people are too lazy to clip the cat's claws and value furniture more than the cat. Very different.

This question smacks of the sort of argument now being used to discourage us from passing the National Health bill. We'll kill off our elderly - that sort of thing. Baloney. All that bill will do is consolidate insurance companies into one. We'll have the same problems we now have (insurance companies are powerful lobbyists so essentially government now) - but more possibility of overseeing them, so there's a possibility of actually improving things.

Same with declawing and vets. Actually, the only vets who will do it now are disreputable. I tell people this all the time when they say they are going to declaw or just ask how to find a good vet. If you find a vet who will do this, then run - because the only animal that vet cares about is the skinned of one - the one that your wallet is made of.

In other countries there have not been the problems with either National Health nor declawing cats that people voice here. The US has a long history of lagging behind other countries with sound medical practice. We actually *discouraged* women from doing breast self exams for decades because Germany, led by Hitler, actively promoted it. We used that as propaganda to prove how evil he was - like he didn't give us plenty of valid reasons!

No, there won't be the equivalent of backyard abortionists if we outlaw this. Instead we will have vets who are not afraid of losing customers if they say no. They will have the law backing up what they know - that this is a barbarous practice.

There definitely are people who are against the docking of ears, etc. but they have been successful. That is why you see a fraction as many as you did a couple decades ago. Back in the late 1970's, my boyfriend had the only undocked Great Dane I'd ever seen. Now I see more undocked than docked. Those surgeries are cosmetic, and, thanks to public outcry, are dying a natural death by going out of fashion ( of course there is always the risk they will come back in style). Declawing, OTOH, is becoming more and more common, because it isn't fashion but convenience that makes people do it. Because people are getting lazier and lazier about raising their pets *and* their children, all sorts of shortcuts appeal to them.

BTW - we do mutilate children too. There is a company that pushes helmets for reshaping children's heads to make them look 'better' Sometimes there is a medical reason for it, but most of the time it is done because parents worry about their baby having a flat side of their head. The thing is, these things have only been around a few years, and if you look around, noone but infants have flat heads. The ads are pretty convincing ( you get the feeling the kid's brains might fall out at any moment if you don't do this). I've seen kids in them. http://www.danmarproducts.com/index.cfm?pageSRC=cr... is one brand. Imagine your parents spending 4000.00 to have your head continually squeezed for months until it is a shape they like?

For a list of ways we deform ourselves ( and potential future mutilations) see this site:http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:frg-3ifT5BEJ:w...

While I am against cosmetic surgeries (like docking) in animals, they don't disable the animal or create life the life long pain, disability and emotional distress that declawing does. Tails do help an animal balance ( I have two tail less cats and can attest to the lack of balance when jumping - but then I have a cat with an enormous, fluffy, heavy tail, and he has poor balance too). Tails are also the most sensitive part of the body except for eyes and genitals, so that surgery must be painful too. And ears do protect the ear canal, and also help channel sound, so yes, some function must be lost then too. It's disgusting that anyone would put an animal they *claim* to love, through risky surgery, recovery pain and loss of function because they think mutilations look better, but the interesting thing is that the less we mutilate animals in this way, the more humans mutilate themselves.

Declawing is along the lines of creating eunochs (where you castrate young slaves so they will have girlish voices all their life, and to bind them to an owner) and the binding of feet ( to make females unable to walk and therefore dependent on others for their simplest needs). Docking dog's tails and ears is more along the lines of buying watermelon sized breasts. Stupid and selfish, and likely to garner more snide remarks than compliments, yes, but it doesn't render the animal (or human) unable to care for itself. Declawing creates toileting and safety issues - why on earth would anyone take away the tool an animal uses to clean up after itself? Just so they don't have to take the time to train them not to claw furniture ( which only a small fraction - mostly those who are not provided with a scratching post - do anywa

In fact, I see more people not okay with docking and cropping but are okay with declawing.

In California, people who are determined to declaw are just going to go to a vet in the next city over. But with the banning, hopefully, more cities/states will catch on and the whole of US will have declawing banned. Hopefully, with the money saved from declawing, somehow, classes can start on how to properly adjust with living with a fully clawed cat. Just like there are training classes with dogs.

But even if a dog is docked/cropped and yes they are in pain, they do not suffer nearly as much as a cat that has lost its toes that it walks on, stretches with and scratches its itches.

I actually agree that docking of tails and pinning of ears is ridiculous..... would people do this to their babies?

I've declawed cats in the past (front declaw) but after learning more, I'm not sure that I would do it again. I most certainly would never have a puppy docked or pinned as it's cosmetic.

DECLAWING... IS MAJOR SURGERY...

and yes a vet might do it even if it is against the law... BUT he could loose his license so most will not touch it.

I just wish it was the ENTIRE STATE of CA/ and for that matter ALL STATES...

Docking does not remove something that a dog walks on ... his toes.

I don't like the docking of pit's ears or dobies ... but at this time that is not as extreme as toes.

Tail docking is not very painful and may even be beneficial in some cases. However, there is really no reason to crop a dog's ears (unless it is a protection dog and it is being cut to short points) and ear cropping is extremely painful.