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Why is the I Am not used to support the trinity or deity of Christ until the last 200 years or so?    ?

The Jews have never taught that Ego Eimi or I Am is a title of God.

Also when Origin quoted John 8:58 he was talking about Jesus exiting not claiming deity.

It’s not in the trinity doctrine either.

The I Am or Ego Eimi In John 14:9 Jesus uses Ego Eimi but translators translated it I have been because the action starts in the past and is continuous.

Likewise Before Abraham exited the action start in the past sooo.....I have been

Updated 7 days ago:

Also in exodus they translated Hebrew Heyeh which is the incomplete form of hayan to ego eimi oh on not I am but I am the being. Jesus doesn’t state Ego Eimi oh on.

Updated 7 days ago:

Besides claiming God said it to Moses when he spoke Hebrew in Exodus or Jesus in John 8:58 what proof do you have Christians believed he claimed deity?

Updated 7 days ago:

YHWH translate to  “He Cause to be or become”

Jesus translates to “Jehovah is salvation”

Updated 7 days ago:

Plz provide your rule books where the emphatic position changes a noun. 

Updated 7 days ago:

Plz provide the scholars before 1800s who understood Jesus to be claiming deity when he said before Abraham I have been

Updated 7 days ago:

Jesus when quoting his father’s name in scriptures did in fact say the name Jehovah probably in Hebrew or Greek 

Updated 7 days ago:

No you did not debunk the question you just translated it the way you want it to read I AM. Origin was talking about Jesus exited before Abraham had he believed Jesus was claiming deity he would have mentioned it he did not!

Updated 4 days ago:

Again you are lying User nobody actually said John was claiming Deity when he stated Before Abraham exited I have been

Updated 4 days ago:

Lol also Jesus prayed for us to be one with him and his father and the Holy Spirit not mentioned! 

John 17:21 that they may be one with us. Are we supposed to be God also. No it’s talking about being in union with Jesus and Jehovah 

Updated 4 days ago:

Again Novatian was say Jesus exited before Abraham so in Greek to English I have been he never stated Christ was claiming Deity. 

Updated 4 days ago:

Both Origin and Novatian was pointing out Jesus exited before Abraham not that he was claiming to be God! Use your brain The Angels exited before the world was and they are not God

Updated 4 days ago:

Chrysostom Never stated Jesus was claiming to be God when he said Ego Eimi what a cult teaching! They were trying to kill Jesus even before this point John 8:58 sooooo your point is moot

Updated 4 days ago:

It’s sooo sad that you have to add words to these people who never claimed Jesus was claiming Deity when he said before Abraham, I have Been but was pointing out Jesus exited before Abraham......I HAVE BEEN

Updated 4 days ago:

You people are so dishonest Philippians 2:5 states we should think like Christ. Verse 6 we should think like Jesus either he thought himself equal with God or he didn’t. Which one should we imitate equality or not equal?

Updated 4 days ago:

Btw Jesus in God’s FORM(he wasn’t human) didn’t think equality was something to grasp at. Philippians 2:6

9 Answers

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  • User
    Lv 7
    7 days ago

    It's because you just made that up.

    Already debunked in your previous question, where the very Bible passage you mention

    - Before Abraham was, I am

    was used by a third-century Christian scholar to argue that Jesus is God.

    P.S. You wrote

    >> No you did not debunk the question you just translated it the way you want it to read I AM. Origin was talking about Jesus exited before Abraham had he believed Jesus was claiming deity he would have mentioned it he did not! <<

    Well...since I am not a translator of Koine Greek, we know that you're lying. Since I also quoted others from the period, we know you're dissembling.

    Let's see what Origen wrote, and you can point out where SOMEONE ELSE mistranslated it.

    225 AD Origen "In what follows, some may imagine that he says something plausible against us. "If," says he, "these people worshipped one God alone, and no other, they would perhaps have some valid argument against the worship of others. But they pay excessive reverence to one who has but lately appeared among men, and they think it no offence against God if they worship also His servant." To this we reply, that if Celsus had known that saying," I and My Father are one," and the words used in prayer by the Son of God, "As Thou and I are one, he would not have supposed that we worship any other besides Him who is the Supreme God. "For," says He, "My Father is in Me, and I in Him." And if any should from these words be afraid of our going over to the side of those who deny that the Father and the Son are two persons, let him weigh that passage, "And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul," that he may understand the meaning of the saying, "I and My Father are one." We worship one God, the Father and the Son, therefore, as we have explained; and our argument against the worship of other gods still continues valid. And we do not "reverence beyond measure one who has but lately appeared," as though He did not exist before; for we believe Himself when He says, "Before Abraham was, I am." Again He says, "I am the truth; " and surely none of us is so simple as to suppose that truth did not exist before the time when Christ appeared. We worship, therefore, the Father of truth, and the Son, who is the truth; and these, while they are two, considered as persons or subsistences, are one in unity of thought, in harmony and in identity of will. So entirely are they one, that he who has seen the Son, "who is the brightness of God's glory, and the express image of His person," has seen in Him who is the image, of God, God Himself."

    Then, let's look at what Novatian wrote, which I quoted before, which you apparently didn't bother to read or you probably would have falsely accused me of mistranslating him as well:

    235 AD Novatian "But although it is not possible to maintain that one who is himself mortal can make another immortal, yet this word of Christ not only sets forth, but affords immortality: certainly He is not man only who gives immortality, which if He were only man He could not give; but by giving divinity by immortality, He proves Himself to be God by offering divinity, which if He were not God He could not give. If Christ was only man, how did He say, "Before Abraham was, I Am? " For no man can be before Him from whom he himself is; nor can it be that any one should have been prior to him of whom he himself has taken his origin. And yet Christ, although He is born of Abraham, says that He is before Abraham. Either, therefore, He says what is not true, and deceives, if He was not before Abraham, seeing that He was of Abraham; or He does not deceive, if He is also God, and was before Abraham. And if this were not so, it follows that, being of Abraham, He could not be before Abraham. If Christ was only man, how does He say, "And I know them, and my sheep follow me; and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish? " And yet, since every man is bound by the laws of mortality, and therefore is unable to keep himself for ever, much more will he be unable to keep another for ever. But Christ promises to give salvation for ever, which if He does not give, He is a deceiver; if He gives, He is God.

    Should I list others?

    375 AD Chrysostom "Jesus saith unto them, Before Abraham was, I Am. Then took they up stones to cast at Him." Seest thou how He proved Himself to be greater than Abraham? For the man who rejoiced to see His day, and made this an object of earnest desire, plainly did so because it was a day that should be for a benefit, and belonging to one greater than himself. Because they had said, "The carpenter's son" (Matthew 13:55), and imagined nothing more concerning Him, He leadeth them by degrees to an exalted notion of Him. Therefore when they heard the words, "Ye know not God," they were not grieved; but when they heard, "before Abraham was, I Am," as though the nobility of their descent were debased, they became furious, and would have stoned Him. "He saw My day, and was glad." He showeth, that not unwillingly He came to His Passion, since He praiseth him who was gladdened at the Cross. For this was the salvation of the world. But they cast stones at Him; so ready were they for murder, and they did this of their own accord, without inquiry. But wherefore said He not, "Before Abraham was, I was," instead of "I Am"? As the Father useth this expression, "I Am," so also doth Christ; for it signifieth continuous Being, irrespective of all time. On which account the expression seemed to them to be blasphemous. Now if they could not bear the comparison with Abraham, although this was but a trifling one, had He continually made Himself equal to the Father, would they ever have ceased casting stones at Him?

    etc. etc. etc.

    Conclusion: you were lying, and you were caught. DO THE RIGHT THING. Admit that you lied. The alternative is to expose your own hypocrisy.

  • Anonymous
    7 days ago

    You're making no sense.   

    There is proof that the early Christians were worshiping Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

    And Jesus never in his life used the word "Jehovah."  It didn't exist till the 13th century.

  • Joe
    Lv 4
    7 days ago

    Please provide your credentials for understanding Koine Greek.

  • 7 days ago

    Caiaphas, the High Priest who presided over Jesus' phony trial, seemed to have no problem understanding what it meant.

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  • 7 days ago

    The Trinity is a cult teaching and those verses like John 10:33 and 8:58 clearly shows Jesus was not god or even claimed to be God but God’s son. Satan has sown weeds among wheat narrow is the gate. Satan doesn’t care and all he wants is for you to not worship Jehovah correctly and even take his name out of the Bible.

  • 7 days ago

    It was.  YHWH translates roughly to "He who was/is/will be is who He was/is/will be." The was/is/will be depends on the vowels that are used, as Hebrew did not have written vowels until fairly recently.  Which actually really works for God's name, as He is thought to be eternal.  YHWH is often given as "I Am," for short and that has been the case for a very long time.  So, when Jesus said he was I Am, he was basically saying he was God.  This is only once place where he claimed to be God, but by using God's specific name, he showed it for sure.  His followers would have understood the reference.

    One needs a knowledge of Hebrew to know all this though.

  • Pyrus
    Lv 6
    7 days ago

    EDIT: You want me to quote scholars before the 1800s?? How about the original manuscripts from year 300?? Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Alexandrinus?? Or better yet, John Ryland's manuscript from year 120 AD?? Also, did you forget about the Textus Receptus??  IT'S THESE manuscripts that are used in that we have in the Bible today! Don't go for the forgeries though. Some have sold forged fragments directly or through the black market, unfortunately. (Just letting you know).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4Xkv2gjzZw

    Oh, and about the Old Testament, did you know that new fragments of the Dead Sea scrolls have been discovered?? 

    https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium-israe...

    Well, how about that??? 

    Dear God! Your grammar is atrocious! Also, do you know what "Ego Eimi" even means?? It's "I EXIST". When you put this in context that's beyond the physical boundaries of this world and state "I EXIST", then you're either God (who has also existed) or you're a liar. Given that Jesus was never a liar as He was sinless (something that even Muslims believe in their own doctrine), He is, therefore, God! 

    When Jesus stated that He was older than Abraham, WHAT'S THE FOLLOWING VERSE? Hmm??? The Pharisees called Him out because "He wasn't even 50 years old"! Gee, I wonder why?? Oh no! Could it be that the translation is actually accurate? OH NO! WHAT EVER SHALL YOU DO NOW?

  • 7 days ago

    Exodus 3:14 is plain enough to any reasonably intelligent person.

  • Anonymous
    7 days ago

    Wow, you're like seriously interested in mythology, aren't you. 

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