If all churches were abolished and replaced with secular groups...?

You won't get that straight answer. The point you're making is a perfectly sound one, but it only addresses the 'doing some good', community aspect of religion.

The whole thing with religion is the luuurve factor... With God in their lives, the religious feel motivated and moved in a way they can't possibly imagine without 'him'.

It's like an addiction to painkillers. That's not being snide, that's literally what it is... Without the morphine of their god, the world seems threatening and vulgar and painful. Therefore hanging out to do good for the community would be well off the dial.

A secular organisation cannot fulfil the functions of a church by definition, because it denies the spiritual needs of people. Also, if it was not driven by a spiritual imperative it would not have the dedication and sacrifice needed to be genuinely effective. The characteristics needed to make these groups effective are all spiritual and would be obstructed by the predominately self centred nature of humanity. If you look at those charities and organisations most involved with humanitarian aid and relief, you will find that they are predominately faith based.

It's interesting that you are requiring logical and rational answers to an illogical and unrational question...but I guess faith people aren't the only ones capable of self-delusion. It's interesting how people who like to denigrate religion like to overlook, or willfully ignore the fact that all major, world religions have principles related to helping others, especially the poor, and especially the vulnerable in society. Take away all the churches in your city and see where the hungry would go, deduct the millions of dollars given by people of faith to world relief agencies, erase all the organizations founded by faith groups and every city loses Union Gospel Missions, YMCA's, YWCA's, soup kitchens, refugee resettlement, advocates for social justice issues. Remove religious facilities and that leaves millions of various support groups without the support systems provided by churches and synagogues. The list goes on and on. Atheists purport to be "rational," and base their belief systems only on evidence, but it seems to me many have a huge blind spot when it comes to looking at religion with a dispassionate view.

that actually goes against what a person who wishes for a more secular nation would want. freedom of feligion is necessary and keeping it the hell out of the government is more necessary. i don't wish to abolish any religion, just get rid of the control that these beliefs have over entire nations. abolishing religion is essentially letting the government have more control over what people do. i want the exact opposite.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence !!! You are displaying faith in the fact that your dogma is correct and all others are wrong ! Therefore, YOUR belief would be the one which people should have faith in ... wouldn't it? You are simply, replacing the tenets of others with yours, then !

Hitler had a similar "final solution" removing all Jews (and others, who wouldn't support him) from Germany then, from life itself. Rationalization was a very common trait among the German populace both, prior to and during the Nazi's reign of terror.

It's been tried before in history.

During the French Revolution they closed all the churches, burned all the Bibles, and banned religion, for secularism.

But they quickly brought religion back after law and order broke down everywhere.

What harm does a Church do? Why does it sound crazy to "worship" now when there was never a problem in the past?

It would seem that people want to remove God so they can fully "Control" the masses.

secularism has already made inroads into society , just look at the anti christian laws that have been hoisted on the communities, no nativity scenes depicting the birth of christ,classing bible quotes as hate speech,no outward show of recognition of ones faith, but will allow the wearing of veils at jobs and schools, and if things do go wrong the taxpayer will fork out the money to right their wrongs

If you abolished churches (religious institutions), that would

be stupid. Thats why you dont get to decide public policy.

When people have no more use for religion, religious

institutions will fade away. Society isn't ready for that yet.

feel better now